Libya: will a ‘no fly zone’ fly?

March 9, 2011 at 11:15 pm (africa, Human rights, Jim D, Middle East, terror)

Let’s be clear: the best outcome to the present situation in Libya would be a decisive victory for the rebels with no outside intervention. That is what all socialists and democrats must hope for, and it still can’t be completely ruled out as a possibility.

But the latest news seems to suggest that the mad mass murderer Gaddafi is on the offensive, and his superior forces (and especially, his air power) seem to be pushing the rebels back. Reports from Zawiyah (30 miles west of Tripoli) suggest that Gaddafi’s forces have reduced the town “to ashes.”

 Until now, the evidence has been that majority of the the rebels probably do not want outside support, and in particular, do not want support from the UK or the US: it would play into Gaddafi’s hands,  we’ve been told, confirming his “narrative” of the uprising as the work of dupes of “imperialism” bent on seizing Libya’s oil wealth for the West. The farcical episode of Hague’s SAS/MI6 mission, seized by a bunch of anti-Gadaffi farmers, has naturally added to scepticism about the wisdom of any form of intervention.

Even so, the shrill letters in the Graun and the Morning Star, denouncing in advance any suggestion of “Western”, UN or any other “intervention”, as though that was presently the major issue, have been bizarre, to say the least. These (presumably) leftist hysterics have now been joined by Tory isolationists singing from exactly the same hymn-sheet.

It’s still far from clear that a ‘no-fly zone’ will get through the UN Security Council (Russia and China are presently opposed), though the recent calls for it from  Libyan rebels, and support from the Arab League, make it more likey that the objections will be overcome.

If  (as seems quite likely), Gaddafi bombs Benghazi, then the case for a no-fly zone will become unanswerable, just as it was in northern Iraq to defend the Kurds in 1991. As was the case then, I can see no possible leftist objection, apart from a  blind, dogmatic and ahistoric objection to any form of intervention under any circumstances.

BBC Radio 4’s Moral Maze debated the issue tonight. As usual, panellist Claire Fox was an insult to the intelligence. Anti-intervention “witnesses” Sami Hermez  and John Rees were also pretty incoherent and noticeably unwilling and/or unable  to answer the questions put to them.

Soft-left groupings in Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria have called for their own governments “and international authorities” to intervene in Libya in support of the rebels.

27 Comments

  1. baldric said,

    Murderous.Was not Murmmar the darling of the vanguard to our freedom and knowing what might, might achieve.,70!s revolutions darling.Capital and its control, state or otherwise,is a crutch that slows us down to knowing socialism.

  2. johng said,

    Thats when this site gets excited. the possibility of another vicarious war for freedom launched by the west. Marvelous.

    • sackcloth and ashes said,

      In case you haven’t noticed, gameboy, there already is a fucking war going on in Libya. And civilians are being killed in the process by a barbaric regime. But of course you don’t care about that.

  3. skidmarx said,

    Funny to see Claire Fox agreeing in part with John Rees. Don’t agree with your claim that John Rees was evasive, but then as you Third Campists get ready to cheer on another American Tragedy it’s no surprise that you can’t hear what others say.

  4. paul fauvet said,

    If it’s a choice between Nato powers and some murderous dictator, Johng can always be guaranteed to side with the dictator.

    If Johng and his party had their way, all the Kurds would have been expelled from Iraq, and most of the Balkans would now be a Greater Serbia run by Milosevic or his successors.

    Perhaps the SWP has an alternative to a no-fly zone. Perhaps Johng and his comrades are organising international brigades to defend Benghazi. But I somehow doubt it.

  5. SP said,

    A classic JohnG comment;

    Demonstrable failure to read even the first sentence of the article, let alone the rest.

    An unsustainable and/or disingenuous characterisation of an opponents position.

    Politically and morally reprehensible silence on the central issue at hand.

    We normally only get one of the above let alone all 3 in a single sentence. You been practicing on Twitter?

    • skidmarx said,

      Demonstrable failure to read even the first sentence of the article, let alone the rest.
      The rest meaning “the case for a no-fly zone will become unanswerable” to which “Thats when this site gets excited. the possibility of another vicarious war for freedom launched by the west. Marvelous”, would seem to be a coherent response. Maybe one you disagree with, but not some mad non-sequitur more typical of bipolar people off their meds. So are you the crazy one here for being unable to see the connection, or does johng have psychic powers that would enable him to make his comment relate to the post even though be some means you have deduced that it is demonstrable that he hasn’t read the whole damn thing or indeed any part of the post?

  6. Oscar Lomax's Undercrackers said,

    John Game — (verb) inefficient use of oxygen and human skin. To Gameboy (v) bullshitting maestro, tosspottery taken to ultra-extremis. (vulgar) Tosser.

  7. resistor said,

    How about no-fly zones over Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan to stop the USA slaughtering civilians?

    • skidmarx said,

      I want to win the What About Israel prize for this thread with :

      What About A No-Fly Zone Over GAZA ?

      [Though of course the people who kill civilians by the hundred there already enforce one]

      • sackcloth and ashes said,

        Does the SWP have a policy of recruiting the dregs of our society? Or does it just come naturally to them?

        You still haven’t answered my question about Davenport, you pro-genocidaire piece of filth.

    • sackcloth and ashes said,

      reSSiSStor, the apologist for genocidaires from Serbia and Rwanda during the 1990s, to Saddam Hussein’s regime, gets on his high horse.

      What a sick and twisted excuse for a human being you are.

  8. baldric said,

    Johng,have you just been rinsing the headwear.

  9. Oscar Lomax's Undercrackers said,

    Gameboying (v) the practice pertaining to nuns and monks – i.e. hoping for sainthood and a crotchless statue presentation at the annual Martyr Awards. alt. The Gameboy (n) person so afraid of what they’ll find in life, they confine others to a prison.

  10. Carl Packman said,

    What an abrupt ending to this article Jim – lets all face it, those who’ve written intervnetion off out of hand are as bad as those neocons who’ve already decided they want to send in ground troops to batter Gaddafi (and any Red Cross huts present).

    As for comment 7, I almost spilt my tea laughing.

  11. Stupid monikers will be deleted said,

    Good to have you back Mr Undercrackers – unleash fiery death on these fools and trolls.

  12. charliethechulo said,

    The usual and predictable friends of tyranny bleat to the Graun:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/10/libya-no-fly-zone

  13. Oscar Lomax's Undercrackers said,

    How frightfukkfully self satisfied gameboY sounds.

  14. Oscar Lomax's Undercrackers said,

    wot does reshitstorr think of the Japanese Earthquake news? Zionists obviously involved. I seen a jew with curly wurly פֵּאָה; throwing shapes beforer it happenned. ReshitsToRR is ouR leader. heinrich HimmlEr needs to lrarn from the lrader ReshitsTooR

  15. I thought we had got rid of him said,

    Some garbage

  16. Oscar Lomax's Undercrackers said,

    Apes without fur.

  17. Oscar Lomax's Undercrackers said,

    offence. a fence

    wot is that all about then?

  18. I said,

    Some garbage

  19. I thought we had got rid of him said,

    Some garbage.

  20. Andrew Coates said,

    Gallwoay’s comments on this have to be read to be believed:

    George Galloway: Welcome Islamists’ Victory from Tunisia to Turkey.

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