Stalinism’s last hurrah (from its last hooray)
- Public School Stalinist posh-boy
- Thursday August 14 2008
- Article history
The Graun‘s resident public school Stalinist gloats as he makes his all-too-predictable support for one side’s imperialist aggression and bombing of civilians very clear:
“By any sensible reckoning this is not a story of Russian agression, but of US expansion and even tighter encirclement of Russia by a potentially hostile power. That a stronger Russia has now used the South Ossetian imbroglio to put a check on that expansion should hardly come as a surprise. What is harder to work out is why Saakashvili launched last week’s attack and whether he was given any encouragement by his friends in Washington.” Read the rest (if you’ve a strong stomach) here.
Still: at least he’s stopped pretending to be a pacifist.
Shiraz Socialist 
charliethechulo said,
August 14, 2008 at 8:56 am
Some sensible comments (as well as the usual crazy and simply sick ones) below Milne’s apologia for Russian imperialism. This from ‘Greenlake’, for instance:
TheStrega –
The invasion of Iraq was a crime. War crimes were committed at Abu Ghraib. The west has failed to fulfill their responsibilites under the Geneva conventions. Etc. etc.
My point is that the crimes committed by the west do not justify the crimes the Russians are currently committing in Georgia.
You simply cannot support the invasion of Iraq and condemn the Russian invasion of Georgia (as Bush has done) or vice versa (as Milne does.)
A pox and a plague on both their houses.
Recommended (2)
World news
Russia · Georgia · US foreign policy · United States ·
Comment is freeThis is a tale of US expansion not Russian aggression
GreenLake’s comment Aug 14 08, 2:02am (about 8 hours ago)
I’m sure the vast amjority of people here share a feeling of revulsion at the hypocrisy of Bush and his gang of idiots. And I don’t doubt that most support the notion that standing up to American imperialism and hegemony is all fine and dandy.
What gets right up my arsehole, though, is how people like Milne seem blithely in favour of replacing American hegemony with Russian hegemony.
Let’s get it straight — the Russians aren’t striking some glorious blow for the nations of the world against American encroachment. They’re beginning to re-establish their control over the dominions they lost after the collapse of their empire. How is it possible that such a prospect fills Milne and his like with the warm and fuzzies?
The whole thing is a shitty mess, brought on by Bush’s absurd foreign policy blunders and the Georgian government’s stupid and cruel aggression. But only a fool would celebrate Russia’s response and only a hypocrite would excuse it while condemning the crimes committed by the West.
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 9:47 am
What has any of this got to do with ‘Stalinism’? Is it because Russia used to be in the Soviet Union that you come out with this nonsense. Do you support the escalation of this conflict promised by George Bush or not? Or are you just going to continue recycling the rhetoric of your own ruling class whilst pretending to be a third campist?
John Palmer said,
August 14, 2008 at 10:11 am
Perhaps a “Third Campist” or a socialist unwilling to be highjacked by any of the actual or would be global hegemons in this conflict (principally the US and Russia) might support the position of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (a body which includes all of geographical Europe beyond the EU, including Georgia and Russia.) It has not “taken sides” but has demanded a complete withdrawl of all armed forces from the zones of conflict. It has backed EU proposals for an internationally supervised negotiation including peace keeping troops in the region. It would support possible action by the War Crimes Tribunal in the case of alleged war crimes (notably the Russian back Ossetian seperatists’ initial shelling and bombing of Georgian villages in South Ossetia and similar action by Russian backed Abkazian seperatists parts of Abkhazia as well as alleged Georgian attrocities against Ossetian civilians during their disastrous military action in South Ossetia. By the way that action was taken when Russian officers claimed that shelling by Ossetian seperatists forces were “by units not curently under our control”!
In this situation the usual abstract polemics unrelated to proposals for specific intervention only confirm the increasing irrelevence of socialist groups.
modernityblog said,
August 14, 2008 at 12:31 pm
I think that one of Stalinism’s minor crimes was to associate Tanks with political liberation, leading to generations of semi-detached politicos cheering Soviet tanks from a far, laughing when Soviet Tanks were used in Hungary 1956 to crush workers, or when they put down the Prague spring of 1968.
it seems that some in the modern generation have kept up that stupid tradition, quel surprise?
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 12:40 pm
John, Europe is a player in this conflict. One reason why the US are being so bullish is because they are horrified by the idea of Europe developing an independent position. This can be utilized by those opposed to war but it is simply nonsense to talk about ‘third campism’ and in the next breath encourage us to line up with sections of the European bourgoisie. Your obsession with European institutions and how the left should get on board is a bit transparent and, well, sad.
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Having been converted to the politics of the AWL I have just written to a miscreant who continues with the kitsch left:
Ken, you old conspiracy theorist, fancy imagining that the global hegemon is concerned with anything else then standing up for civilized values and decency. Isn’t it about time that socialists dropped all critical analyses of US foreign policy and simply quite properly supported the extension of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation to the Black Sea in order to ensure the spread of global democracy?
How can anyone speak using such old fashioned terms as ‘imperialism’? Especially given that the last six years have surely demonstrated definatively that such talk is old hat? Think of all the good work thats been done bringing peace and democracy to some of the most unlikely places! For goodness sake lets move fowards into the 21st century and fight the good fight against Soviet Totalitarianism.
You know it makes sense.
(this message has been bought to you by duck and cover productions. Next week: Campaign for Nuclear Disarmenment: Lets bomb Iran).
KB Player said,
August 14, 2008 at 1:01 pm
“Next week: Campaign for Nuclear Disarmenment: Lets bomb Iran”
You’re a bit out of touch. Isn’t it let’s invite the Iranian ambassador Dr Seyed Mohammed Hossein Adeli to address the CND annual conference to reassure the members that Iran’s nuclear ambitions are entirely motivated by the search for renewable sources of energy?
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 2:02 pm
No I’m not out of touch. I’m a socialist. Not a Washington Hawk. There is a difference.
runia said,
August 14, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I shall go and run around to get a stitch, as I fear my sides have split.
Don’t give up the day job of perennial PhD student and apologist for any regime that is agaisnt the great satan.
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 3:08 pm
whose defending any regime? I just want NATO dismantled. As does anyone who has the right to call themselves a socialist. incidently I notice that Jim has decided to call me after Father Coughlin a noted anti-semite and Nazi. How disgusting. This I suppose is how the AWL and its supporters now engage in debate after advocating nuclear strikes on Iran and supporting NATO.
modernityblog said,
August 14, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Father Coughlin
you finally, got the joke?
only after Jim was kind enough to post a link, how thick can you get, it never occurs to you to research a subject or look it up?
got a silver shirt?
runia said,
August 14, 2008 at 3:31 pm
I wasn’t necessarily thinking of on this thread, but the Serb regime under Milosevic, the Iranian theocracy, the Ba’athists in Syria and Iraq and the Taliban for a start.
I am not a member nor supporter of the AWL.
I think you’ll find that your kind of knee-jerk ‘anti-imperialism’ is despised in much wider sections of society once you look outside of the trot-left bubble.
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Well I don’t find the slander of socialists amusing. Nor do I find anti-semitism amusing. Unlike the AWL who clearly imagine its a subject for levity. How disgusting.
Jim Denham said,
August 14, 2008 at 4:08 pm
“I don’t find anti-semitism amusing”: Oh yes you *do*, Father! Allow me to remind you of your on-the-record quote (from some other asshole, but nonetheless quoted approvingly by you): “Let’s have some fun with anti-semitism.” Remember now? Or are such a liar as to deny it? I don’t recommend doing that, because I’ll dig up the quote, rest assured.
charliethechulo said,
August 14, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Here we go again…
(to Guardian CiF):
“Moderator: why, exactly were my comments of 9.21 am, Aug 14th, critical of Seamas Milne’s ‘analysis’ removed? You people really *are* Stalinists – in every sense of the term except mass-murder – aren’t you?
“Once again, I wish to formally compalin about arbitrary, subjective political censorship at CiF”
modernity said,
August 14, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Father JohnG wrote:
“Nor do I find anti-semitism amusing.”
except when an SWP approved speaker uses it?
“An evening of live music and spoken word to celebrate the life & music of Charlie Parker with:
Gilad Atzmon & the Orient House Ensemble”
http://www.swappeal.org.uk/events/gilad.html
“Gilad Atzmon, a pro-Palestine advocate, gave a talk to students this month, arguing: ‘I’m not going to say whether it is right or not to burn down a synagogue, I can see that it is a rational act.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/apr/17/highereducation.israel
“I have a feeling that Atzmon has a cluster of supporters who don’t read everything that Atzmon writes, don’t read what the critics of Atzmon have said and don’t read what those critics do and say about Israel. This way, they can ignore the awkward bits of Atzmon when he’s going on about the Protocols, the death of Jesus and what’s wrong with ‘the Jew’, and why Eisen, Zundel and the rest are good guys; they can ignore any analysis of this network of ideas and acts as classic antisemitism and they can ignore what the record is of Jewish anti-zionists. That way, they can get to the heart of the matter,tell these J. a-z’s that really they’re zionists, GA is a hero and he has done more singlehandedly to wound the Israelis than an Ashkenazi recipe book.
isakofsky | Homepage | 01.08.07 – 10:06 am | # ”
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/levi9909/116803256772458791/
isakofsky is Mike Rosen
so the SWP are happy to invite known anti-Jewish racists when it suits them, give them a platform, turn a blind eye to the racism, etc and then whine when this is pointed out
Not that they’ll understand the issue of Eisen, Zundel or the significances of the Protocols
paul fauvet said,
August 14, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Johng´s sarcastic remark about the extension of NATO to the Black Sea demonstrates his blissful ignorance of geography. NATO is already on the shores of the Black Sea in the shape of Turkey – a much larger and more powerful country than Georgia.
Johng would like NATO to be dismantled. So would I, along with all other military organisations. But in the meantime we are stuck with sovereign states who have the right to join whatever international organisations they like.
And it is not Russia that has any right of veto over the international bodies its neighbours choose to join. That is up to the peoples of those states. And with the new Tsars throwing their weight around, it is likely that there will be more applications for NATO membership, not fewer.
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Fauvet it is the duty of socialists to oppose the extension of NATO. Full stop. If you support NATO you should stop pretending to be on the left and get on with backing imperialism openly. And no Jim your attempts to suggest that I am an anti-semite are not amusing. Its rather ridiculous that you have to stoop so low. But then this is what the AWL have become isn’t it? A far right organisation that has debates about bombing iran and publishes racist cartoons to defend western civilization against dirty arabs. How did it happen to you Jim? Its a question every person on this site should ask themselves.
Jim Denham said,
August 14, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Father Coughlin, remember this?
http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann0604.html
And do you remember supporting (with great enthusiasm) what Mr Neumann says about anti-semitism, when you contributed to the Socialist Unity discussion list a few years ago?
modernityblog said,
August 14, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Jim,
let’s ignore Father John? he’s sole purpose is to disrupt threads, he’ll never honestly engage with the issue of the SWP’s pandering to anti-Jewish racism, even when Mike Rosen points it out
any reader interested in Father JohnG’s defense of Michael Neumann’s filth can read it here
within which JohnG avoids giving honest answers, ducking and diving for his political life
resistor said,
August 14, 2008 at 6:07 pm
and Jim Denham is the racist creep who describes Palestinian refugees as ‘ex-pats’ and who denies them their right to return to their homes. It seems he opposes the Russians preventing a similar Nakba in South Ossetia by the Israeli armed and trained Georgian fascists.
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Do you believe Neumann is an anti-semite Modernity? I mean really?
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Incidently I would commend the thread that modernity posted to anyone. The extraordinary campaign of lies and slander, and dodging the point engaged in it by both Jim Denham and Modernity, should ensure that no one reading it would ever take them seriously again.
modernityblog said,
August 14, 2008 at 6:24 pm
readers might also like to scan https://shirazsocialist.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/six-days-that-shook-the-middle-east/
in which you’ll see the fairly typical SWP word games and deliberately avoiding the issue, eg
if the SWP NOW can’t admit that Atzmon is a anti-Jewish racist and that they knowingly hosted and promited him, with the mount of evidence available, then they are NOT going to be able to be honest on more complex manifestations of anti-Jewish racism
again, for the SWP thickos: IF you can’t admit the basic problems with Atzmon, no one will take you seriously on these points.
Jim Denham said,
August 14, 2008 at 6:44 pm
“let’s have fun with anti-semitism”: and Father John doubts whether Neumann is an anti-semite? Can anyone imagine any other form of racism being treated in such a manner in a supposedly “left wing” publication?
Anyway: I think it once and for all disposes of Coughlin’s claim that he doesn’t “find anti-semitism amusing.”
Oh bloody hell: that other nasty little racist, “resistor” has returned to pollute our comments section with his hatred of Jews.
John Palmer said,
August 14, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Johng: You are right in a way, I do want the left to engage concretely with crises by using (where necessary) the institutions that actually exist and actually COULD help. If you think we live in a pre-revolutionary situation of some kind of dual power where there are proletrian armed forces which can be deployed in crises of inter-state conflicts fine. It is just that I do not think the real world is remotely like that. Call in “centrism” or “left reformism” or whatever – I still think the far lefts incestuous and highly abstract debates about these crises ignore a crucuial question: What Is To Be Done.
paul fauvet said,
August 14, 2008 at 7:32 pm
I said quite explicitly in my earlier post that I want NATO to be dismantled, and along comes JohnG to say I want it expanded.
Try reading what your opponents write before snarling at them! Then your arguments mught begin to make a bit more sense.
But regardless of the opinions of JohnG or myself, It seems that a lot of people in Georgia really do want to join NATO, for the understandable reason that they think it might ptotect them from a marauding imperialist power immediately to their north. Doubtless the events of the past week have strengthened that feeling, and have been a major setback for the anti-NATO, anti-militarist cause.
JohnG might also ask himself why there have been no mass protests against NATO membership in countries such as the three Baltic states, Poland, or even impeccably democratic Norway. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they all border on Russia, and take a less starry-eyed view of Tzar Putin than you do.
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 7:37 pm
I’m sorry Paul but if you are attempting to argue that socialists should support the right of states to join NATO we disagree.
John, very concretely what needs to be done is to build a movement warning of the consequence of US sabre rattling over this issue which will create a situation where any association with such policies will be a liability for any government. I don’t think this is impossible given the embarressment that already exists over the Iraq war etc.
Again Jim, read the article, then see if you can figure out what its about.
johng said,
August 14, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Oh and I thank Modernity for posting another one of Denham’s disgusting articles praising the good bashing the Arabs recieved in 1967. You really couldn’t make it up.
charliethechulo said,
August 14, 2008 at 7:47 pm
John: you either agree with the right of nations to self determination or you don’t. It cannot be restricted to what you personally happen to agree with, because then, by definition, it’s not self determination. To spell it out further for the hard-of-thinking: self determination has to mean the right to do things that we, as socialists, might not agree with. Only in the extreme situations of mass murder, genocide or when a workers’ revolution is at stake, should socialists seek to restrict the right of nations (and, indeed, peoples) to self determination.
modernityblog said,
August 14, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Paul,
to save you stress can I suggest something?
best emphasize any point at least three times when debating an SWPers, nowadays they are the political troglodytes of the world, incapable of parsing the simplest sentences and JohnG is worse than most of them.
also don’t embed too many ideas in a paragraph or the SWPer will become confused and have to call in a central committee member for help.
tim said,
August 14, 2008 at 8:06 pm
JohnG,
Really John, you’ve spent the last year claiming an imminent attack on Iran.
Now ypu’re forecasting a third world war.And you reckon you can build a movement to persuade Poles and Latvians not to remain in NATO.
If your soothsaying and organisational gifts were so great, how come you got fucked over by one spiv MP and ended up getting locked out of your office?
charliethechulo said,
August 14, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Father John, read this:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/self-det/ch01.htm
modernityblog said,
August 14, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Charlie,
Scanning the other threads where the NPT is discussed, you might like to comment on how the SWP are happy to use that particular treaty to justify certain actions in relationship to Iran, but suddenly become almost distraught when the treaty concerning NATO membership is mentioned
What a major inconsistency!
The SWP are happy to utilise the NPT in arguments, even though they don’t believe in it, yet mentioned NATO and they have a fit.
charliethechulo said,
August 14, 2008 at 8:22 pm
The degenerate ex-Cliffites are consistently inconsistent, Mod. E.g: Father John’s evident conditional attitude to national self-determination (see above). They’re also mainly pretty thick.
Jim Denham said,
August 14, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Can’t argue with this:
http://blog.z-word.com/2008/08/the-return-of-the-neocons/
paul fauvet said,
August 14, 2008 at 8:33 pm
So the problem is US sabre rattling, JohnG ?!?! For the past week, it has been Russian toops and aircraft rattling weapons that are a lot more damaging than sabres.
What are these sabres that the US has rattled ? Has the US threatened to invade Russia? No – in fact, US officials categorically rule out even sending troops to Georgia. Instead, they’re suspending all military cooperation between NATO and Russia, and have threatened to kick Russia out of the G8, and possibly deprive Russia of the 2014 winter olympics. While the latter measures might hurt Russian pride, they’re hardly life-threatening.
You are so dazzled by the ingrained assumption that imperialism equals the United States that you turn the current situation on its head. Just as the pro-Brezhnev minority in the old CPGB could never admit that the Warsaw Pact had invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968 (on the grounds that they were invited in, so it couldn’t have been an invasion), so you refuse to see that a massive act of aggression has been committed against Georgia.
Despite Sarkozy’s attempts to broker a ceasefire, Russian troops are still in and around the Georgian town of Gori, accompanied by Ossetian gangsters who are looting under the tolerant eyes of their Russian minders. You don’t believe me? Ask the journalists whose cars were stolen by the Ossetians!
As for Georgia and Nato – if I were a Georgian I would argue against the country joining NATO. And I fear I would be in rather a small minority. Moscow’s behaviour has gven NATO a new lease of life, and it is political blindness to blame it all on the United States.
modernityblog said,
August 14, 2008 at 8:56 pm
I thought Paul’s point at HP was good:
““The US is attempting to push the boundries of NATO right up to Russia’s borders”, protests Zin.
Before he makes a fool of himself, he ought to look at a map. Five NATO members already border Russia – they are Norway (yes – in the far north), Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Poland (the latter two encircle a slice of Russian territory, the Kalingrad enclave).
Why should adding Georgia to NATO make such a difference ? Zin will probably say “Ah, but its’s on the Black Sea coast!” As are two other NATO members, Turkey and Bulgaria.
In any case, sovereign states have the right to join whatever international organisations they see fit. I would much prefer NATO to be disbanded – but that’s not going to happen as long as Putin and Medvedev are threatening to recreate the Tsarist empire.”
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/14/seumlass-milne-on-the-caucuses-causes/
Jim Denham said,
August 14, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Olly’s on form:
http://ollysonions.blogspot.com/2008/08/western-imperialism-blamed-for-new.html
Renegade Eye said,
August 15, 2008 at 6:54 am
The last 15 years, have been an aberration in Russian history. It has usually thought of itself as an empire. With US bogged down in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran etc, Putin knew this is a good time to move.
I’m neutral between a US proxy and a Great Russian Chauvinist. If this was 1989, I would have a different position.
Dustin the Turkey said,
August 15, 2008 at 10:12 am
At least in his new byline picture, he almost looks presentable; in the old black-and-white one, he looked like a boggle-eyed urine-scented weirdo. Who said that old Stalinists can’t change?
Classic Books: The Flashman Papers « Max Dunbar said,
August 15, 2008 at 11:09 am
[…] conflict from what passes for Britain’s intelligensia, defending imperialist aggression in the name of anti-imperialism, would have amused Flashman […]
modernityblog said,
August 15, 2008 at 1:02 pm
surreal analysis on SU blog
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=2724
tim said,
August 15, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Most of JohnGs “facts” debunked here
http://www.hrw.org/
Pumping out Russian propaganda day after day that 2000 South Osstian civilians had been killed, JohnG proved his neutrality.
Jules said,
August 15, 2008 at 2:07 pm
“John: you either agree with the right of nations to self determination or you don’t.”
1. Charlie, seeing as you enjoy citing Lenin as an authority on the subject – do you remember Lenin and the Bolsheviks’ attitude to the right to self determination for Georgia when it sought autonomy under a Menshevik government?
2. If you’re in favour of self determination do you support the right of South Ossetians to autonomy/independence (favoured by the vast majority who live there) and condemn the Georgian government for invading them and trying to concur them by force?
3. What is factually incorrect in the Milne article? Pointing, laughing and crude abuse might be enough for people who already agree with your position but others might want a little engagement with the arguments to be convinced.
4. Are you ever going to do any original blogging, or are you just going to continue poaching all your material from Harry’s Place and Drink Soaked Trots?
5. How long are you going to keep up your poor impression of Will Rubbish?
modernityblog said,
August 15, 2008 at 2:15 pm
taking of poaching, maybe Shiraz Socialist could give JohnG a guest slot and he’d be able to expand on this theme?
“82. that should be the biggest imperialist in the region. The US is the biggest imperialist in georgia. its practically a client state for goodness sake.
Comment by johng — 15 August, 2008″
cited above.
tim said,
August 15, 2008 at 2:17 pm
What is factually incorrect in the Milne article?
“Several hundred civilians were killed there by Georgian troops last week”
Well Milne just made that up.
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008/08/13/russia19620.htm
Jules said,
August 15, 2008 at 2:27 pm
No he didn’t, the claim is based on the testimony of Tshinvali residents as reported in the Associated Press:
http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/740671.html
Jules said,
August 15, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Sorry, but just to clarify are “charliethechulo” a different person from “Champagne Charlie”, I’m now assume the later is Jim D – if so sorry about those latter remarks charliethechulo – a case of mistaken identity!
tim said,
August 15, 2008 at 4:22 pm
unnamed quotes.unproven.
At least JohnG was honest and just quoted Russian propaganda.
Jules said,
August 15, 2008 at 5:45 pm
The Bush administration appears to be trying to turn a failed military operation by Georgia into a successful diplomatic operation against Russia.
It is doing so by presenting the Russian actions as aggression and playing down the Georgian attack into South Ossetia on 7 August, which triggered the Russian operation.
Yet the evidence from South Ossetia about that attack indicates that it was extensive and damaging.
The BBC’s Sarah Rainsford has reported: “Many Ossetians I met both in Tskhinvali and in the main refugee camp in Russia are furious about what has happened to their city.
“They are very clear who they blame: Georgia’s President Mikhail Saakashvili, who sent troops to re-take control of this breakaway region.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7562611.stm
charliethechulo said,
August 17, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Jules: it is axiomatic that socialists do not *always* advocate self-determination (Lenin didn’t in the run-up to WW1)): but our support for self-detemination remains absolute. I suspect you simply don’t undestand the difference between “advocating” something and “supporting” it.: a very important differentiation when discussing the Leninist / Bolshevik attitude towards national self-determination.
Jules said,
August 17, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Yes Charlie, I obviously don’t understand the subtle linguistic distinction between the adjectives “advocate” and “support”. Prior to your post I’d assumed they were synonyms. Now I realise that the Bolsheviks “supported” Georgian self-determination by invading the country, installing a puppet regime and forcibly incorporated it into the Soviet Union in 1921.
Cheers.
modernity said,
August 17, 2008 at 4:39 pm
still plenty of tanks in Georgia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7566538.stm
“Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has said forces will begin withdrawing from Georgia on Monday.
Mr Medvedev made the pledge in a telephone call to French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who brokered a Russian-Georgian ceasefire agreement.
Earlier, the Russian commander of frontline forces in Georgia told the BBC a gradual withdrawal of Russian forces from there was under way.
Russian troops went into Georgia after fighting erupted over South Ossetia.
Maj Gen Vyacheslav Borisov said he had given the order for Russian soldiers in the village of Igoeti, just over 32km (20 miles) from the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, to be replaced by Russian peacekeepers. ”
that’s the 18th August.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7566199.stm
it must warm the hearts of all of the would be Tankies?
charliethechulo said,
August 17, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Read the a-b-c’s, Jules: like the Bolshevik resolution on national self-determination (1916; in ‘Lenin: Collected Works’ ,Vol 22, Larence & Wishart). It’s quite clear what Lenin and the Bolsheviks meant. Only people misled and miseducated by Stalinism, or who have some other political motive, can possibly misunderstand what the Bolsheviks meant.
Jim Denham said,
August 17, 2008 at 10:15 pm
fugg you you fuggin SWP fuggs
Jim Denham said,
August 17, 2008 at 10:26 pm
That last (# 56 “”fugg you…” etc, ) post was *not* from me. So someone is fucking around here, and trying to misrepresent me.
Lobby Ludd said,
August 17, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Jim Denham said:
“That last (# 56 “”fugg you…” etc, ) post was *not* from me. So someone is fucking around here, and trying to misrepresent me.”
“Trying to misrepresent you” – in what way? Not enough words? Not abusive enough?
Come on, take comfort where you can – at least it was one less comment for you to write.