Fascists back Brexit

June 6, 2016 at 6:19 am (Andrew Coates, Daily Mail, Europe, fascism)

Surprise, surprise:

Vote Leave and Ukip’s anti-EU campaign have been “infiltrated”* by fascists. Surprise, surprise …

Coatesy reports:

The neo-Nazi with a swastika on her breast… and Vote Leave badge on her vest: From Holocaust deniers to EDL fascists posing at the Kray twins’ grave, the violent thugs and racists hijacking* the Brexit campaign reports the Daily Mail.

The campaign for Britain to leave the EU has been infiltrated by dozens of far-Right extremists with racist views, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

Our investigation has uncovered evidence that former members of the English Defence League, the National Front and the British National Party have attached themselves to the ‘Leave’ movements. Those who have hijacked the Brexit campaigns include:

  • An EDL leader who was jailed after attacks on police. He posed with a pro-Brexit Ukip banner alongside the gravestone of the notorious Kray twins;
  • A BNP official and his swastika-tattooed girlfriend, who have been distributing leaflets printed by Boris Johnson’s official anti-EU campaign.
  • A former deputy of ex-National Front leader Nick Griffin – the man has been photographed with a pro-Brexit Tory MP at an anti-EU eventA BNP activist, who attended a rally during which pro-Nazis sneered at Holocaust victims, canvassed for Vote Leave in Surrey.

As comrade Neil said during the Ipswich debate on the Referendum.

Are you seriously going to vote with a bunch of Nazi filth?

Oh and we, the Left for Remain, won, indicative sign, 21 to 9.

2 Abstentions.

  • * Some of us would dispute the words “Infiltrated” and “hijacking” in this context: these peope have found their natural home and appear to have been welcomed with open arms by their fellow Brexiters.

57 Comments

  1. Mike Killingworth said,

    Guilt by association. It suggests to me that you’ve lost the substantive argument.

    • Jim Denham said,

      It’s not guilt by association, Mike: these people have been accepted by the official Brexit campaigns, and no action has been taken against them since the Mail’s revelations. As for us having “lost the substantive arguments”: we’ve been winning hands down on the left and within the labour movement and win virtually all the time whenever the issue is debated on the left. The general public, exposed to a barrage of anti-immigrant propaganda from the right wing media, may be a different matter …

      • Steven Johnston said,

        Regardless of winning or losing I just wish you’d tell us the truth Jim, that inside or out of the EU workers will be exploited. Why don’t you stand up at your meetings and say this?

      • Jim Denham said,

        It’s a point so obvious, banal and irrelevant to the present debate as to be scarcely worth making (though, in fact we always do – for the benefit of any complete idiots in the audience).

        After all, workers are exploited under both fascism and bourgeois democracy … and would be under a workers’ government.

    • Steven Johnston said,

      Hahahahahaha…guilty as charged!

      • Dave Draycott said,

        I really do not know why Jim Denham engages with you. You live in a cartoon parallel universe with no intention of connecting with the real world or real people. You will presumably be in your bedroom hammering out pseudo Marxist platitudes and banalities into cyberspace in your bedroom for decades. Jim, my advice for the sake of your sanity let it pass without response mate.

      • Jim Denham said,

        Yes, Dave: I’ve come to the same conclusion.

  2. Steven Johston said,

    Jim, it’s the present debate that is banal and irrelevant and scarcely worth making. Only complete idiots would argue for and against staying in the EU.
    As, after all it would not end the exploitation of the working class and that surely is why we became socialists. No doubt you have your reasons for taking sides in this debate. But the reality of the debate is a political and not an economic one, as both sides accept capitalism. It all boils down to tax rates, laws protecting national industries etc. The last thing on their mind is abolition of the wages system. Well Jim, good luck if you are a “winner”, you do have that friend of the working class, the IMF on your side. Maybe I’m just too cynical, I mean if the IMF think something is good, I doubt that something will be good for me. Though if your interests are not served after your “victory”, I can’t help saying “told you so!”

    • Jim Denham said,

      Working time directive, agency workers regulations, maternity rights, open borders, anti-racism … none of this matters to you, eh Steven, just so long as the exploitation of the working class persists?

      And I repeat: seeing as workers are exploited under both bourgeois democracy and fascism, would you say that there’s no point in opposing fascism?

      • Steven Johnston said,

        Jim, two can play at this game, ending capitalism and replacing it with socialism, a world of free access, none of this matters to you as long as you can win a few reforms?

        The only remedy for fascism is…you guessed it Jim, socialism. As the working class is the politically decisive class, if the want fascism then well end up with it. Fascism in itself is not a special threat to the working class, it is just another reform movement that will ultimately end up being subverted and used by the capitalist system.

        Now, we can look into history about a similar debate to the EU referendum, the repeal of the corn laws in 1846. Both sides tried to mobolise working class support and the corn laws were repealed, yet if you look at the aftermath who benefitted? Not the workers that tilled the land, their wages remained rock bottom! in the end not even those capitalists that supported their repeal and it was cheaper to import corn to the UK than to buy home grown. What does this prove? That you can’t buck the system.

      • Jim Denham said,

        “Fascism in itself is not a special threat to the working class, it is just another reform movement that will ultimately end up being subverted and used by the capitalist system”: in a single sentence you have demonstrated why no class conscious worker should take you seriously.

  3. seditionsquare said,

    I’m not entirely sure what the story is, here. Some fascist people would vote to leave? How is that ‘infiltration’?

    • Jim Denham said,

      Indeed it’s not: the Brexit campaign is their natural home.

      • Steven Johnston said,

        Are you sure? As one of the “benefits” of leaving, according to Brexit is that it would lead to more democracy in the UK. Yet, fascist believe that democracy is the problem. It’s something they don’t like.

        Regarding fascism subverting capitalism, pray tell how it does this?
        It is a reform movement as the fascists always say, they will make the economy stronger and their country more, not less, productive.

      • seditionsquare said,

        Well, Remain is Tony Blair’s natural home. I don’t hear ‘Comrade Neil’ complaining about voting alongside him…

    • Steven Johnston said,

      Surely it would take more than 3 people, from different far-right movements, who hate each other, to hi-jack the Brexit campaign?
      Which one of the three is pulling the strings?
      I saw Boris Johnson on countryfile last night, which one of these 3, was off camera giving him instructions on what to say?

    • mark taha said,

      There are people on the far right who want to remain as well.This issue transcends party lines.

  4. Jim Denham said,

    Clive Bradley (on Facebook) brings some sense to the discussion (Steven and also the equally deluded ‘Lexit”ers really need to think about this, assuming they’re capable of rational thought):

    Two things on my mind, actually, both about the referendum.

    1. A thought experiment. Imagine on June 23 every country in Europe was being asked to vote on the same question, and suppose they all voted to leave. You know, that’s how Austria voted – and we know what just nearly happened there; that’s how France voted – with its growth of the FN vote. Et cetera. Surely it’s clear this vote would be the result of the growth of poisonous, dangerous nationalism. It would not be a Good Thing. What would it mean for the future of Europe (and I mean Europe, not just the EU)? It scares me to think about it.

    This is not, as I have seen this put, just because of my ‘metropolitan snobbishness to wards the great unwashed’. Something is happening in the world – look at Austria, look at France, look at the USA. I understand why people are going to vote for Trump: it’s not just hatred of Muslims and Mexicans, it’s also insecurity caused by neo-liberal globalisation and the remoteness of the Democratic political establishment; and Brexit appeals to similar people for similar reasons. But they are dangerous for the same reasons.

    2. I know many people who seem to think a vote to leave is some kind of protest vote. That is, by voting ‘out’ they will register their disapproval of the EU (and of David Cameron). Protest votes have their place.

    But you have to consider what the alternative is. As far as the referendum goes, there is literally no clear alternative at all. But we can use our imaginations.

    I know people who think that the alternative is a newly-invigorated Labour Party, which will surge to power in the wake of the Tories’ split, and so forth. This seems to me utterly – borderline certifiably – deluded. An ‘out’ vote will express the same basic sentiment as it would in Austria.

    Please, vote to remain, and then let’s do everything we can to change Europe.

    • seditionsquare said,

      You’re saying that the behaviour of the left-wing be determined by the far-right! Who cares if *some* nationalists are Eurosceptic? We need to make the case for a socialist anti-EU movement, and stop jumping at the shadows of fascism. And you know prevents us from doing that? Self-styled ‘comrades’ calling Lexiteers ‘idiots’.

  5. Steven Johnston said,

    Let’s carry on with the thought experiment, the vote to remain is successful…now tell me what happens? Also tell me why it hasn’t happened before.

    • Jim Denham said,

      The far right receive an enormous set-back, and the left steps up basic solidarity activity, especially with our comrades across Europe. Within Britain we fight for a Corbyn government and make propaganda for a workers’ government. There are, of course, no short-cuts and chanting “socialism now” doesn’t help our class in any way whatsoever, but the long, hard struggle for socialism goes on, as all serious Marxists understand.

      • Steven Johnston said,

        Wow, you radicals have never done this before! But I’m glad my suspicions about you lot voting for Corbyn have been confirmed. Makes it pointless all your debates about the Labour party as you were always going to vote for him anyway. True, there are no short-cuts to socialism, I’ve never said there have been. Agreed, it’s a long harder struggle, made even longer and harder when we take dead-ends like voting for the labour party.. All serious Marxists understand that.

      • Jim Denham said,

        “Makes it pointless all your debates about the Labour party as you were always going to vote for him anyway” YES! Have you only just noticed? I suggest you try reading some Marx (Communist Manifesto would be a start) and Lenin (Left Wing Communism – an Infantile Disorder would be especially apposite for you personally), and then I’ll send you a reading list, Steven. Your total ignorance of socialist a-b-c’s and indifference to fascism is seriously worrying. Stupidity and ignorance like yours never helped the workers’ movement.

  6. Political Tourist said,

    Better Together anyone

    • Glasgow Working Class said,

      Nat si piece of shit. Get it right up ye bigot.

  7. Rilke said,

    Women getting the vote….utterly irrelevant according to Steven Johnson.Why? It did not bring about ‘socialism’. Ending child labour …worthless. Did not bring about socialism. Abolition of plantation slavery…pointless. The factory owners just used the free labour to drive down wages and it did not give us ‘socialism’. All utterly ‘pointless’ ‘reforms’….unless of course you are a child, a woman or a slave.
    Woman needs an abortion and it is criminalised in the state in which she lives…so what? Why move to another state where it is legal? Both these states are ‘capitalist’ and that is the real enemy…therefore it is ‘pointless’. Unless of course, you are the woman in question…then it is very very fuckin important. Steven, you need to open your eyes…then again why bother? It is ‘pointless’, all you will see is a product of capitalism and therefore utterly beyond comment because it is so determined by commodity equivalence and the profit nexus that any further comment is errr….pointless.

    • Southpawpunch (@Southpawpunch) said,

      They are all good points about Steven Johnstone’s SPGB.Another strand of their thought relates to national self-determination. What I heard from one of their co-thinkers in India (World Socialist Party of India): the independence struggle was pointless and just replaced London bosses with those in Calcutta (where we were) and also the freedom of Bangladesh just relocated bosses from London to Karachi to Dhaka.

      You get involved in the struggles (even) when they do not directly lead to socialism e.g. for the freedom of East Bengal, see the benefits of such reforms (e.g. votes for women) or expect contempt of just plain disinterest from those you would hope to support your policies.

      MK is dead right in his comment ‘Guilt by association. It suggests to me that you’ve lost the substantive argument.’ The way I put it next to the original post ,was should the Labour Left (Benn etc) in 1975 not have voted for out as the National Front would also be voting the same way. It’s a facile argument. & No left is involved wit fascists on this matter.

      • Jim Denham said,

        “The way I put it next to the original post ,was should the Labour Left (Benn etc) in 1975 not have voted for out as the National Front would also be voting the same way. It’s a facile argument. & No left is involved wit fascists on this matter”: yes, Benn & co *were* wrong in 1975. And by voting on the same side as fascists, you obviously *are* helping them. As simple as that.

      • Southpawpunch (@Southpawpunch) said,

        Ridiculous – you surely can’t believe what you write.

        ‘Helping fascists’:

        BNP said vote ‘No’ to Scottish independence
        AWL said vote ‘No’ to Scottish independence.

        http://www.workersliberty.org/scottishreferendum

        Therefore…

      • Steven Johnston said,

        You got it in one Southpawpunch, that is why we don’t take sides, as Marx himself said “workers of the World unite”. It makes know difference where the bosses live, what is important is to replace capitalism with socialism. Would you have supported Pol Pot or Ho Chi Minh in their national liberation struggles?
        By the way there is no e in my spelling of Johnston.

      • Southpawpunch (@Southpawpunch) said,

        Steven, & you spell communism c-o-m-e-d-y.

        Take a holiday in once French North Africa. Find someone who lived there under French rule. Tell him/her you are no better off now with the French gone and no more rule by those from Paris and the Pied-Noirs who treated them like dogs, banned them from certain areas and other overt racism.

        Then after that shocking eye-opening to you, take up Morris dancing or other pursuits best suited to the late C19 and leave the Marxism to us.

        Ho Chi Minh – against French, then US imperialism? Absolutely. Stalinist murder of Vietnamese Trots that he was.

        Would have to remind myself of Cambodia history 1st before answering other.

      • Southpawpunch (@Southpawpunch) said,

        & Marx too sides in other than pristine ‘trade unions v bosses’ type conflicts.

        He supported the North in the USA Civil War.

        “The Stars and Stripes held the place of honor at the 1865 festivities of the International Workingmen’s Association, Karl Marx’s London-based organization of socialists, communists, anarchists and trade unionists.” http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/07/02/who-won-the-civil-war/the-civil-war-was-a-victory-for-marx-and-working-class-radicals

        He also supported the rebels in the First Indian War of Independence (probably the Indian Mutiny to many here)

        “However infamous the conduct of the Sepoys, it is only the reflex, in a concentrated form, of England’s own conduct in India, not only during the epoch of the foundation of her Eastern Empire, but even during the last ten years of a long-settled rule. To characterize that rule, it suffices to say that torture formed ail organic institution of its financial policy. There is something in human history like retribution: and it is a rule of historical retribution that its instrument be forged not by the offended, but by the offender himself.” – Marx

        https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/09/16.htm

        You haven’t got a clue about Marxism.

      • Southpawpunch (@Southpawpunch) said,

        took not ‘too’

      • Jim Denham said,

        “Ridiculous – you surely can’t believe what you write.

        ‘Helping fascists’:

        BNP said vote ‘No’ to Scottish independence
        AWL said vote ‘No’ to Scottish independence.”

        Voting on the same side as fascists self-evidently *does* help them, but in the case of opposing Scottish independence, the priority of working class unity made that a most regrettable price that had to be paid, however reluctantly: incidentally, it also meant being on the same side as Galloway – almost as distasteful.

      • seditionsquare said,

        So you’re alright with intentionally helping fascists if it’s worth it in the long run.

        Incidentally, have you heard of the word ‘hypocrisy’?

    • Steven Johnston said,

      Oh now Rilke, why did you miss out all the problems of capitalism? Millions dying of hunger every year…ending this with socialism, worthless to you.

      Millions dying in wars over supply routes, this could be ended by socialism but this is worthless to you.

      How utterly pointless it must seem, unless you are one of the ones dying of hunger or in one of capitalisms’ wars.

      Rilke, you need to open your eyes, but why bother when you can hoodwink the workers into thinking a few reforms is all they can hope for.

      Yes, capitalism is the enemy of the working class and needs to be replaced with socialism but carry on, voting for the labour party, now believe me, that is worthless.

  8. Glasgow Working Class said,

    Hilary Benn was pathetic on being interviewed yesterday. He knows the EU
    Is corrupt but follows the party line. His father would not be amused. Vote Out and watch the bloodsuckers squirm. Any idea anyone how the MEP pension arrangement works out?

  9. Political Tourist said,

    Glasgow Bigot is going into Scottish Referendum mode.
    Sad SLAB facilitated these characters.

    • Glasgow Working Class said,

      You could lose this referendum too Nat si Bhoy. Maybe you will just bite on the capsule and end it.

      • Steven Johnston said,

        Yet as I’ve told Jim, the “real” fascists are now running the EU! Yet no one in the remain campaign has told me how they are going to stop them. Fortress Europe anyone? Again, you will cry “But we never asked for this!”.

  10. Steven Johnston said,

    Jim – if you have read the Communist Manifesto and then taken a clown’s tumble to campaign for a Labour victory, then you missed the point by several miles.

  11. Steven Johnston said,

    Southpawpunch, if we left the socialism to you we’d end up with Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh et al.
    A very frightening prospect, I’d much rather stick with the SPGB’s version. I can’t image them killing anyone to achieve socialism, though they might “forget” to put sugar in your tea if you upset them.
    Re the North Africa test, I am not prying into your sexuality, that is your business, but maybe you should visit Tunisia and act as an out and proud gay man, see how far you get there! Or claim to be an abortionist in Morroco.

  12. Steven Johnston said,

    It is you that does not have a clue about Marxism as next you’ll be telling me you have a list of stepping stones to socialism, what, you mean you have got a list? Come on then, lets have a laugh, what are they? Apart from voting labour.

  13. Steven Johnston said,

    I can only hope the rest of you would not support national liberation movements, as socialists we are internationalists. If you do, ask yourself, which national liberation movement has brought about socialism or is making it more likely? Some even usher in even more repressive regimes, well it is always a gamble. But at the very least I would hope you would not support those thieving, murderous b*****ds like Ho Chi Minh and Pol Pot. Come on, at least you Jim would balk at supporting both of them.

    As for the list of stepping stones to socialism, it’s fine, I can pretty much guess what that looks like. something along the lines of vote labour, keep it left, minimuim wage, nationalise the railways, put more money in the NHS, keep fingers crossed it all works and never end the futility of life under capitalism…well that one is for another day.

  14. Rilke said,

    Steven, if you can point out one phrase where I support or in fact even indicate I do not care about ‘capitalist exploitation’ then perhaps your rant could be taken seriously. Your assertion implies that human beings can only care about one thing at a time….a very simple-minded position. I have never read any assertion of yours on here for example, in which you state clearly that you are against rape for instance…I just took it for granted that you are. You do not list it in your list of ‘capitalist outrages’. I could quite easily open-up a rant about how you never seem to care about sex crimes and so on and then you would have to waste your breath explaining why I was mistaken and in fact, how I was being shallow and cynical. You would be correct. It is a very simple trick and easy to do..even I can do it. Desist from setting up false dichotomies; it is a first year undergraduate move for the semi-educated. You are making yourself look more foolish with each line you write.

    • Steven Johnston said,

      You are correct, the answer is of course to vote Labour, nationalise the railways, raise taxes and what is on the rest of the list of things on the stepping stones to socialism? Vote to stay in the EU? Which has not only been infiltrated by the far-right, is actually carrying out their policies, but Jim thinks he has the answer to this. It involves voting Labour, who’d have thought it?

      Well Rilke you are more interested in “saving the whale” than bringing about socialism, at least you are honest about that.

  15. Rilke said,

    That would be an ecumenical question.

    • Steven Johnston said,

      Yet no left-wing politician has been able to dismantle “fortress Europe”. Even where it is all happening, Greece. Which is supposed to have a left-wing party in power and they were also powerless to stop austerity measures being imposed upon them.

  16. Rilke said,

    That would be an ecumenical matter.

    • Steven Johnston said,

      So after all the sound and fury and all the abuse I got, when I ask you to walk it like you talk is this they best you can come up with?

  17. Steven Johston said,

    “So you’re alright with intentionally helping fascists if it’s worth it in the long run.

    Incidentally, have you heard of the word ‘hypocrisy’?”

    Sedition, you have them bang to rights.
    What was funny is that one of them talked about fighting imperalism and said they supported the Vietcong in the Vietnam war. Yet, they fail to realise that every country, if it had the chance would be imperalist. That is what happened in 1978, when Vietnam invaded Cambodia and installed a puppet regime…

    As I asked before, do they just make it up as they go along?

  18. Rilke said,

    I was cooking some Japanese dumplings yesterday and on the back of the packet it only said ‘shallow fry’ along with other cooking instructions…not one word about ‘socialism’ and how to attain it – the utter swine. What planet do these scum live on? Can it truly be that frying small prawn dumplings is just ‘pointless’ when it comes to bringing about ‘socialism’? They should listen to Steven Johnson; he really knows what is pointless and what is not pointless when it comes to bringing ‘socialism’ into being and he certainly knows not to take sides when it comes to frying small prawn dumplings, Marx knew all about that apparently.
    Heh heh heh!

    • Steven Johnston said,

      Rilke, give me your list of “stepping stones to socialism” and I’ll advise you which ones are pointless. Don’t be coy, you radicals always have a list.

  19. Rilke said,

    I am not a ‘radical’, how could I be? I do not exist. I am a series of words and phrases on a blog. – a digital figment. As such, I am almost as pointless as your endless comments about ‘things’ being pointless.

    A only give lists on a consultancy basis and only if paid in silver, gold or palladium – I am not interested in platinum, at least not just now.

    Ponder thereon.

    • Steven Johnston said,

      As long as one of them wasn’t to nationalize the coal industry to (snigger) ensure it would mean there would be job for generations to come!

  20. FatDave said,

    Meanwhile, back in the real world, the vast majority of fascist voters are working class, traditional Labour Party supporters. Moseley left the Labour Party to found the Blackshirts, Mussolini and Hitler squirmed to power on the back of working class supporters (any of the blue rinse brigade likely to have been in the SA? No, didn’t think so.

    Look at the SNP – nationalism and socialism in one room and all of a sudden, you have vicious attacks on people who democratically oppose the SNP.

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