The US makes peace with Cuba

December 18, 2014 at 1:22 am (Castro, Cuba, Jim D, Obama, stalinism, United States)

A great day for the long-suffering people of Cuba and a move that may eventually bring about some degree of democracy in the anti-working class Stalinist dictatorship of that benighted island. Obama has shown some real leadership:

19 Comments

  1. Ian Pirie said,

    An important step, but no one is mentioning the continuing economic embargo!!

  2. Celow Pippenfists said,

    The rightist degeneration of shiraz capitalist knows no bounds.

    • Jim Denham said,

      If you want to be taken seriously, Celow, you’d better explain exactly what you mean and cite chapter and verse.

  3. Igo said,

    Although I enjoy listening to Obama speak (he’s a great lecturer), I think he’s excusing American imperialism and exploitation in Cuba with lofty words. Did you notice that he said nothing about Cuban influence in America, what policies Cuba will adopt to better its interests in the United States? Doesn’t an equal agreement between two sovereign nations include that? American corporations will increase their hold on Cuba, submit their workers to slave wage-labour (perhaps a few dollars per day), use those resources to manufacture its own goods, and sell those goods back to Cuba. Taxes on imports from Cuba to the United States will be high and to Cuba from the States low. The American rich will turn Cuba into its playground, building enormous luxurious condo and housing projects and resorts. Capitalists do need a vacation now and then after all. “Humanitarian Projects” will consist of Cuba adopting large debts for “development” to certain monetary institutions as well as the US. Obama is right in saying that “We are all American.” The problem is that not all of us are de facto or de jury equal.

  4. Celow Pippenfists said,

    ‘cite chapter and verse.’

    Certainly:

    “A great day for the long-suffering people of Cuba and a move that may eventually bring about some degree of democracy in the anti-working class Stalinist dictatorship of that benighted island. Obama has shown some real leadership”

    Further proof, if such were needed, that you are a liberal.

    • Jim Denham said,

      If advocating working class democracy and workers’ power makes me a “liberal”, I plead guilty. I’d say, however, that it makes me a Marxist in militant opposition to the degenerate, dead-end bureaucratic collectivism of Stalinism and its derivatives and spin-offs in latin America.

      • februarycallendar said,

        Isn’t it interesting how everyone who uses the term “liberal” as a pejorative hates very much the same things?

        Whether here or in Daily Mail comments.

  5. Celow Pippenfists said,

    Marxism and liberalism are antithetical. Liberalism is the ideological expression of the socioeconomic relations generated by capitalism.

    There was no advocacy of ‘working class democracy and workers’ power’ in what I quoted Jim, just your standard kowtowing of yankee geopolitical strategy and praise for the anti-working class butcher Obama.

    Shiraz socialist is just Harry’s Place for burnt out pseudo trots.

    • Jim Denham said,

      Read Marx, Celow: especially the Communist Manifesto; a brilliant premonition of Cuban (relatively benign) Stalinism, as opposed tom progressive capitalism:

      “The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honoured and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid-labourers.

      “The bourgeoisie has torn away from the family its sentimental veil, and has reduced the family relation to a mere money relation.

      “the bourgeoisie has disclosed how it came to pass that the brutal display of vigour in the Middle Ages, which Reactionists so much admire, found its fitting complement in the most slothful indolence. It has been the first to show what man’s activity can bring about. It has accomplished wonders far surpassing Egyptian pyramids, Roman aqueducts, and Gothic Cathedrals; it has conducted expeditions that have put in the shade all former Exoduses of nations and crusades.”

      I’d suggest also reading the chapters on “Reactionary Socialism” in order to educate yourself and understand Marx’s true attitude towards enlightenment values such as democracy and free speech.

      Having done that and educated yourself, please feel free to return for further debate.

  6. Celow Pippenfists said,

    (1) I’ve already read it; (2) you don’t understand what it means; (3) It has nothing to do with anything I’ve said; (4) It’s you who needs to do some more reading – try capital vol.1 particularly the chapters on primitive accumulation; (5) what have free speech and democracy got to do with normalising trade and diplomatic relations with the US?

    • Jim Denham said,

      OK: we read the same things differently:
      let’s start from basics:

      *does the working class have the right to elect is own parties and representatives into national governments?

      *Are we in favour of universal suffrage?

      * Are we in favour of free speech?

      * Do we think the working class has the right to organise into independent trades unions?

  7. Celow Pippenfists said,

    Yes to all those things, and they are systematically denied all of those rights under capitalism.

    Haven’t got a clue what that’s got to do with anything I’ve said though.

    • Jim Denham said,

      OK: let me spell it out. ..

      Are those things available to the working class in ..say …Cuba?

      PS: “and they are systematically denied all of those rights under capitalism” … er…no they’re self-evidently not. If your case against capitalism is based upon a fairly basic failure to grasp reality, then you are beyond hope. And no use to the struggle, either.

  8. Celow Pippenfists said,

    Why do you keep asking me about Cuba? I’m critiquing your liberal apologism for Obama and ‘progressive capitalism’. Your idea that the US normalising trade and diplomatic relations with Cuba will lead to greater democracy and freedom there is bizarre. Have China or Vietnam become democracies as a result of embracing capitalism and trade with America?

    The US is the *main enemy* of democracy in Latin America – and not just as a historical matter when it propped up a continent wide army of genocidaires and sadistic torturers during the cold war era. In recent years the Bush and Obama Regimes supported the overthrow of democracy in two countries (Haiti and Honduras), supported a neo-fascist rebellion in Bolivia and backed a right-wing coup attempt and subsequent ‘destabilisation’ techniques in Venezuela. That’s before we even get on to the US’s continued and systematic interference in the economic and political democracy of these countries as a routine practice.

    You, as a liberal, might think that capitalism is a progressive force in the world. Personally, as a socialist, I think it’s a chain around the necks of humanity, and is now posing a threat to the very existence of life on earth.

    • Jim Denham said,

      I really don’t mind you calling me a “liberal”, Celow: but please answer my question about working class trade union rights in Cuba, or anywhere else. That’s the crucial issue for serious socialists – not your third worldlist, geo-political petty bourgeois nonsense.

  9. Celow Pippenfists said,

    What exactly did I say that was ‘third worldlist, geo-political petty bourgeois nonsense’? Given that you’re pimping the idea that US imperialism is some sort of benign democracy exporter I can see why its not convenient to have the fact pointed out to you that the US is the main enemy of democracy in Latin America.

    • Jim Denham said,

      “Given that you’re pimping the idea that US imperialism is some sort of benign democracy exporter ” … and where, exactly, do I say that?

      Whilst you answer that, you may as well also answer my previous question: What about trade union rights for workers in Cuba?

  10. Celow Pippenfists said,

    I’m happy to answer that: workers should have better trade union rights in Cuba.

    Now, maybe you’ll have the courtesy to answer two of my questions:

    (1) Why do you think that the US normalising trade and diplomatic relations with Cuba will lead to more democracy there?

    (2) Do you disagree with me that the US is main enemy of democracy in Latin America? If so, perhaps you could tell me which other country has done more to undermine, subvert and overthrow democratic governments?

  11. Jim Denham said,

    (1) Because the working class of Cuba will begin to realise that their problems are caused by the Cuban ruling class (the Castro family and their cronies), etc) at least as much as by the Yankees.

    (2) The US is an enemy of democracy in Latin America, as are local ruling classes.

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