That Salma Yaqoob post: what I take back…and what I don’t
A couple of days ago I posted a piece here about ‘Respect’ leader Salma Yaqoob’s campaign in Birmingham Hall Green. My fellow-blogger Voltaire’s Priest removed it without consulting me and for a while it looked like the end of a beautiful friendship, and possibly of this blog.
We patched things up last night over a few bottles while watching the Great Debate.
Even after our pow-wow, however, I’m still not entirely clear on why Volty did what he did. I know he was concerned about Respect’s record of running to the bourgeois courts, using the tyrants’ friend Mr Galloway’s considerable wealth to silence critics. I would also accept that my article wasn’t very good.
However, I insist that the article was honest and I absolutely deny accusations made in the comments box to the effect that I’d simply made it all up.
For those who didn’t read the now-deleted article, let me explain: the article was based upon an off-the-record conversation I’d had with someone who’s been out campaigning for Yaqoob. This person criticised the Yaqoob campaign for concentrating entirely upon the Pakistani and Bangladeshi wards (Sparkbrook and Springfield) whilst ignoring the more ethnically mixed wards of Hall Green and Moseley/Kings Heath. S/he rejected the description of the campaign as “communalist” but did describe it as “ghetto politics.” The person also accepted that Yaqoob is not a socialist in any “conventional” sense of the word, but insisted that she represents something “progressive” on the grounds that she is “anti imperialist.” S/he agreed that Respect has no governmental slogan or position “beyond calling for a Labour government!”
The person closed by stating that Respect appears to have given up on the idea of offering any sort of serious alternative to Labour.
It was a bad article because (as I made clear in the comments box) it was my recollection of a conversation, not a formal interview: however, I put the person’s comments in quote marks as though these were being set down verbatim. From a purely personal point of view, I also felt bad about the piece because I didn’t make it clear to the person that I was going to base an article on their comments.
So, yes, it was a bad article and Volty (whatever his motives) was, on balance, right to remove it. But it was an honest, truthful account of a real conversation with a real person.
Interestingly, no-one in the comments objected to the one statement in the article that was verifiably inaccurate: that Respect were only standing three candidates (Yaqoob, Galloway and Abjol Miah): in fact, they’re standing 11, although they’ve made it clear that they’re only campaigning seriously for those three.
Yaqoob’s bag-carrier and campaign manager, the (not very good) pugilist Ger Francis (who seems to be obsessed by people he calls “Orange Zionists” who are behind all criticism of Respect) is most certainly not someone I’m about to take any lessons from about honesty or accuracy. Like the SWP (who expelled him), I believe he’s unfit to be considered part of any kind of reputable politics.
Mr Francis’s complaint that the article attributed a particular quote to him (supposedly upon hearing that Labour MP Lynne Jones was supporting Yaqoob) which he denies, is one I’m willing to accept, however: I accurately reported what I was told, but it cannot be independently verified so I’m not repeating it.
In short: a bad but honest article.
Also in short: whilst there may be grounds for voting for some explicitly socialist anti-Labour candidates; there are no grounds whatsoever for voting for the reactionary shower called ‘Respect.’
Shiraz Socialist 
ger francis said,
April 16, 2010 at 10:49 pm
I have no doubt that Jim Denham has convinced himself he can remember an ‘honest’ conversation. Whether it actually took place it a completely different matter however. But at least he admits it was a ‘bad article’. To further illustrate, his claim that Salma’s campaign is ‘ignoring the more ethnically mixed wards of Hall Green and Moseley/Kings Heath’ is simply, and variably, untrue, like so much of the original rubbish he wrote. Last weekend all resources were mobilized to leaflet both wards with our new ‘Lynne Jones backs Salma’ leaflet. Indeed the first areas we actually canvassed were the so-called ‘more ethnically mixed’ parts of Kings Heath ward.
And no, it is not true either that I think all critics of Respect are ‘Orange Zionists’. It’s just you lot. I am much too rooted in the Marxist method to use such a scientific term in a random abusive manner.
Jim Denham said,
April 16, 2010 at 10:53 pm
” I am much too rooted in the Marxist method to use such a scientific term in a random abusive manner”: ha-ha fuckin’ ha, you sell-out scumbag on the make. I suppose you used your “Marxist method” when you attempted your (not very effective) physical attack on me?
Khalid said,
April 17, 2010 at 8:23 pm
heh – good one Jim.
“Marxist Method” – WTF is that? Any relation to Political Determinism? heh
resistor said,
April 16, 2010 at 11:29 pm
I’m shocked, Denham uses the pseudonym ‘Champagne Charlie’ is he also ‘Max Dunbar’?
Clearly he’s unable – in either guise – to distinguish between fact and his alcohol fuddled fantasies. Far too many years of slavish Matgamna worship and playing Dixieland ‘Jazz’ with King Bobo and his Pinkies must have left him full of self-loathing.
ps I thought the AWL were proud to be Orange Zionists.
charliethechulo said,
April 16, 2010 at 11:32 pm
I believe Denham and the AWL – though I can’t speak for them- are probably proud not to be anti-semites like you, or obsessed by “Orange Zionism” conspiracy theories like the ex-socialist bag-carrier Mr Francis.
charliethechulo said,
April 17, 2010 at 1:40 am
For the record:
back when Nooman was (relatively) sane and honest:
http://socialistunity.blogspot.com/2007/01/swp-expels-leading-member.html
Note this:
“Sadly, Ger was and is a political thug. He has played a disastrous role in both Birmingham Stop the war Coalition, and the Socialist Alliance, as has been fully documented by Sue Blackwell and Rumy Hassan. Ger polarised the left in Birmingham, using bureaucratic manoeuvres and allegedly even physical intimidation, to exclude those, like Steve Godward, who were regarded as “unhelpful” to the implementation of every wheeze that came from London.”
Jim Denham said,
April 17, 2010 at 2:20 am
One thing that Volty and I have agreed upon is an article soon along the lines of “Ger Francis: ex-socialist, now a hooligan and conspiracy-theorist”.
Everyone whose ever been threatened, assaulted or abused (verbally or physically) by this piece of shit should get in touch. We will be contacting (amongst others), Bob Whitehead, Rumy Hassan and Sue Blackwell. I’m busy trying to track down Lyn Hubbard, the (then) SWP’er who witnessed Francis’s attempted physical assault upon myself. This should be excellent sport, as well as exposing the viciousness of this particular piece of ex-socialist sell-out, Saddamite/Gallowayite scum.
Coming soon, folks!
ger francis said,
April 17, 2010 at 8:02 am
As Jimbo’s recent article has illustrated, now sadly withdrawn, he has form when it comes to writing about Birmingham politics. So don’t hold your breath awaiting the compilation of his new dossier exposing the gangster underworld of Respect’s practice here.
Contrary to the impression given that I had Jim’s fingernails pulled out, the reality is somewhat less dramatic. A bit more like handbags at 40 paces in fact. Some five seconds of pushing and shoving outside a Stop the War meeting (five years ago?) between a drink soaked Mr Denham and myself. And I had one other incident with someone similar, who was not drink fuelled, but who was causing an obstruction at a very large public meeting I was trying to steward and refusing to budge. And that’s it. For all the guff about violence and threats he won’t come up with anything else because there is nothing else to dig up. Now, for my part, of course, I was wrong. I should have known better. And I unreservedly apologise for the trauma Jim has obviously undergone since his terrible ordeal. There is simply no excuse for pushing. I did a bad thing. Very bad. I worry about its impact on Jim and pray that one day he can get over it and move on with his life. For his own sake. And those closest to him. And everyone else in fact. Ever consider counselling?
On the general issue of bullying, the biggest exponents of it in Birmingham were the hardened bunch of sectarians in the Stop the War Coalition at the start who were so outraged at the sight of hijab wearing Muslim women in leadership positions that they would have happily driven them out. Well, the SWP and Socialist Action at the time were never going to allow that to happen, and the bullies folded in the face of determined polemic. Most quickly disappeared into oblivion and others, on a different side to me then, are on the same side now, and playing a very positive role in Respect.
So, good luck with the workers enquiry. I look forward to being called to give evidence.
Sarah AB said,
April 17, 2010 at 9:36 am
@ger – if I have correctly understood ‘Orange Zionist’ (I’d never heard it before so had to look it up) it embraces a spectrum of people ranging from Avigdor Lieberman to Seth Freedman. It doesn’t seem a very useful term.
maxdunbar said,
April 17, 2010 at 9:57 am
‘I’m shocked, Denham uses the pseudonym ‘Champagne Charlie’ is he also ‘Max Dunbar’?’
I can confirm that myself, Denham and Charlie are all different aspects of the same shape-shifting entity.
Seriously though, I found Jim’s piece thoughtful and interesting. But as he says he should have talked to the person in question before reproducing their words here.
resistor said,
April 17, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Come off it Jim, the ‘Max Dunbar’ persona is too ridiculous to be true.
‘Seriously though, I found Jim’s piece thoughtful and interesting.’
Very funny.
‘But as he says he should have talked to the person in question before reproducing their words here.’
Or making it all up after a heavy drinking session.
Red Maria said,
April 17, 2010 at 2:29 pm
I’m pleased to see that Voltaire’s Priest is back on Shiraz Socialist. I think he’s an indispensible part of the blog.
I didn’t read the original post about Salma Yaqoob, so I can’t comment on it.
Yaqoob is, I think, a formidable politician, very talented, very bright and for that matter, good looking. She has that knack of combining tradition – the hijab – with a kind of hip modernity – she’s a strong, feisty and stylish woman. She comes across well on television; she has a low musical voice and presents her arguments effectively and she is passionate without being bombastic. I disagree with Jim’s description of her as being an Islamist. I don’t think she’s that at all. She’s a practising Muslim who happens to be in politics, in much the same way as say, Shahid Malik is.
Regarding the original post, which as I say, I did not read, it appears that Ger Francis took issue with some of the allegations therein. That’s perfectly fair. Blogging is, as we know, citizen journalism and it is incumbent on us bloggers to strive for accuracy at all times. That isn’t to say that we can’t be polemical and state our opinions robustly but there is a difference between giving opinions – he/she is a stupid pig of a person/a damn fool/ blindingly brilliant – and making claims – she/he is a cat burgler/ fraudster/ has plagarised so and so’s work etc.
I think it’s one of Jim’s strengths that he is a polemical blogger with a love it or shove it style. But with polemical posts, especially if we’re posting when we’ve had a few libations – and come on, we’ve all done it – I think we have to take extra care not to slide into making allegations about people, especially not defamatory allegations.
Leave aside whether Jim and Ger don’t particularly get on as people or whatever Jim’s private view of Ger is, Ger is as entitled to his reputation as anyone else.
Khalid said,
April 17, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Don’t be so naive Maria.
When you get a chance, ask Salma – “In a Muslim country (or where they are in the majority – Malaysia) should parliament’s act be subject to Islamic vetting.
”
She will never answer this question.
That will be proof without doubt that Salma is a dirty Islamist.
Lobby Ludd said,
April 17, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Thanks for your ‘opinion’, ‘Khalid’, try to back it up with something of substance, or be seen to be a fool. Go on, then.
Khalid said,
April 18, 2010 at 8:33 am
Lobby Ludd says “or be seen to be a fool. “
Is this ad hominem from a Salma Yaqoob operative? Figures.
Lobby are you a convert? – did you know that Prophet Mohammed was an anti-semite who massacred jewish prisoners of war? Oh, BTW, this dirty 55 year old married a 6 year old – easy to molest, ey?
Mackenzie said,
April 25, 2010 at 10:07 pm
Khalid,
Given that Arabs are, by definition, Semites, you might want to rethink what you just said about Muhamed. Unless you mean that he hated himself?
It annoys me greatly when people mix up “Semite” and “Jew” as if they were synonyms. Time to play with the Venn Diagrams, kids!
Khalid said,
May 18, 2010 at 7:35 pm
Mackenzie – you are confused. “anti-semite” stands for “jew hatred”. It’s a misnomer – but that is the tradition.
I doubt you would know the slightest about Venn Diagrams, anyhoo.
BobFromBrockley said,
April 17, 2010 at 3:45 pm
I thought I was well up on this sort of thing, but what does “Orange Zionist” mean? In Israel, I thought it just meant a secular ZIonist, as opposed to a religious one. Is that right?
Rosie said,
April 17, 2010 at 3:46 pm
My computer having died, I missed out on Jim’s post. Glad it’s been sorted out between VP & JD. I’ve got a new computer as well, so all bright & merry.
Red Maria – I know what you mean about Yaqoob, who sounds pretty impressive when interviewed. I imagine she has quietly dropped her Islamist past. Is there any more evidence for that than what she wrote about Rushdie? I suppose she’ll move in with Labour when Respect finally falls to pieces.
I think that’s a false Andy Newman, who isn’t normally that gross.
Lobby Ludd said,
April 17, 2010 at 3:59 pm
I thought the main problem with the original article was that the thoughts of someone canvassing for any party at all tells you little about the party but something about that particular canvasser.
What was the point of the article?
(I know this blog has a liberal attitude to commenting, but isn’t impersonation unacceptable? Plainly the comment is not that of the well-known Andy N, and should be removed.)
Rosie said,
April 17, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Have removed the Andy Newman impersonator’s comment. It wasn’t a good impersonation, and it wasn’t funny either.
resistor said,
April 17, 2010 at 4:51 pm
‘Orange Zionism’ refers to the politics of the AWL. Shorthand for their support for sectarian states like Northern Ireland and Israel.
maxdunbar said,
April 17, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Respect does seem to be going all out for a Labour fourth term. I wonder why?
Lobby Ludd said,
April 17, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Perhaps for the same kind of reason that much of the left is going for the ‘lesser of two evils’, Max.
maxdunbar said,
April 17, 2010 at 6:35 pm
I appreciate that. It’s just kind of surprising.
Lobby Ludd said,
April 17, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Perhaps you should speak to your fellow blogger, Jim D, Max. It might take the excitement, or rather ‘surprise’, out of your life, but on the other hand it might also shock you into understanding the grubby politics that even the nicest leftists get embroiled in.
shug said,
April 18, 2010 at 4:00 am
Salma Yaqoob interview, http://www.thestirrer.com. answers a few questions regarding her background religious belief and politic.
The Friendly Lefty said,
April 18, 2010 at 9:05 am
The real issue is the pathetic character of the original article, which was so immediately problematic that it looks like VP felt it had to be taken down. As someone who had the misfortune of reading that article, let me say for those that did not that it contained the most evidently wild unfounded accusations, including personal lies and other attempts at character assassination.
As has been said above, it recounted a conversation with a self-proclaimed supporter of Respect’s campaign in Birmingham but who was a basically a spy judging by the account she or he gave. This testimony included accusations that even a distant observer would have seen were demonstrably untrue and motivated far more by the author’s vicious dislike of the political party and people in question than any serious attempt to learn about a political campaign for someone who is in a serious position to win a seat for a left-of-Labour party.
Andrew Coates said,
April 18, 2010 at 10:17 am
Before anyone get sanctimonious Grrr posted a comment on my Blog that I am a “racist”.
Apart from being gobshite in fact is a sueable claim.
I would welcome any attacks on the saintly Yaqoob for the simple reason that she is not a socialist and her ‘anti-imperialism’ is half-thought-out cack.
My blister lives just next to the Constituency and she, btw, has not noticed anything of a radical nature going on there.
If I hear anything I will post it without any regard for the fine feelings of the likes of Grrr.
Lobby Ludd said,
April 18, 2010 at 8:52 pm
Ooh, so very brave, and dead secular to boot. We hang on every word, Andrew, especially if they are in French.
skidmarx said,
April 18, 2010 at 1:00 pm
I couldn’t see anything in the original article that would be actionable, but now that Respect is in the habit of threatening bloggers with the courts it seems reasonable to be a little nervous.
Rosie said,
April 18, 2010 at 3:38 pm
It seems to me very curious that Respect is “anti-imperialist” and then recommends that people vote for the party in Government that took us into two wars as an ally of the USA. I would have thought that was fundamental & they would be recommending people vote for the Lib Dems.
resistor said,
April 18, 2010 at 5:01 pm
Coates writes, ‘I would welcome any attacks on the saintly Yaqoob for the simple reason that she is not a socialist and her ‘anti-imperialism’ is half-thought-out cack.’
Any attacks? Does that include racist attacks?
Jim Denham said,
April 18, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Of course …not…you idiot.
Jim Denham said,
April 18, 2010 at 6:05 pm
The scumbag ex socialist Mr Francis knows that:
1/ Re: “Contrary to the impression given that I had Jim’s fingernails pulled out”: I (JD)have *never* claimed that his unprovoked physical assault on me was a serious attack in terms of physical force or that he did me any serious injury: just that it placed him outside of the norms of socialist discourse; as did his assault on Bob Whitehead.
2/ Re: the alleged “hardened bunch of sectarians in the Stop the War Coalition at the start who were so outraged at the sight of hijab wearing Muslim women in leadership positions that they would have happily driven them out”: Mr Francis lies again. No-one objected to Muslim women “in hijabs” being part of the anti-war movement: what some of us objected to was Mr Francis and his (then) colleagues in the SWP sucking up to Islamist, opposing any criticism of Islamism and supporting the physical intimidation by Islamists, of socialist refugees from Muslim states, like Arash, an Iranian socialist refugee whom Mr Francis encouraged Islamists to harass and intimidate. Mr Francis has placed himself beyong the pale, outside of any possible definition of socialism…and is also (personally) an asshole.
sackcloth and ashes said,
April 18, 2010 at 10:00 pm
‘Orange Zionism’ refers to the politics of the AWL. Shorthand for their support for sectarian states like Northern Ireland and Israel.’
‘resistor’, I have a sincere question for you. Do you wake up every morning in whichever shithole you live, look at your shaving mirror, and say ‘Today, I am going to be a complete and utter cunt’? Or does all this come to you naturally?
Just asking. Other than the fact that I think the only things you’ve ever ‘resisted’ in your life are (1) common sense and (2) pussy.
Andrew Coates said,
April 19, 2010 at 9:18 am
On Rhttp://tendancecoatesy.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/yvonne-ridley-and-george-galloway-why-socialists-should-never-vote-for-respect/espect, Ridley and a good photo of Yaqoob:
Andrew Coates said,
April 19, 2010 at 9:19 am
That should be:
http://tendancecoatesy.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/yvonne-ridley-and-george-galloway-why-socialists-should-never-vote-for-respect/
resistor said,
April 19, 2010 at 11:34 am
Sackcloth and ashes, spoken like a true Orange Zionist.
Secondly, Andrew Coates has not excluded racists attacks from his support for ‘any’ attacks on Salma Yaqoob.
Andrew Coates said,
April 19, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Resistor,
Your comments are as cracked as your shaving mirror.
Why don’t you start asking what Yvonne Ridley and Yaqoob are photographed together.
skidmarx said,
April 19, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Do you mean “why” rather than “what”?
adam said,
April 19, 2010 at 1:47 pm
you’re still using her picture without consent im imagine – aren’t there copyright rules to this blogging lark mr journalists?
Andrew Coates said,
April 19, 2010 at 2:21 pm
No.
I meant, pour quelle raison.
sackcloth and ashes said,
April 19, 2010 at 2:25 pm
‘Sackcloth and ashes, spoken like a true Orange Zionist’.
If anyone wants to check if they still have a brain and a soul, a simple way of doing this is to check if ‘resistor’ approves of them or not. If it’s the latter, don’t worry, you’re still a progressive, rather than a Strasserite, Jew-hating piece of shit.
resistor said,
April 19, 2010 at 4:22 pm
I see the AWL and Coates are supporting this nasty piece of work…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8630001.stm
‘A Labour candidate is embroiled in a row with the Liberal Democrats after suggesting they would give convicted murderers and paedophiles the vote.’
Jonny Mac said,
April 20, 2010 at 7:50 am
Orange Zionist, ffs. Why not say ‘hook-nosed Jew’ and be done with it.
The alliance of Islamists and a thuggish section of the self-described ‘left’ is one of the most depressing aspects of political life today. They have to be called out as the reactionary, hypocritical wankers they are, every single time.
skidmarx said,
April 20, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Because not all Jews are Zionists like your scummy self. It is really despicable that you should continually put about this “if they’re criticising Israel they must be Nazis” bollocks.
Jonny Mac said,
April 21, 2010 at 6:40 pm
I never called you a Nazi, skidders. I called you a reactionary, hypocritical wanker. Get it right!
Oh, and I don’t consider myself a Zionist. Because, shockingly, you don’t have to be a Zionist to hate people who cosy up to fascists and then have the brass neck to claim they’re left wing and anti-imperialist and yadda yadda yadda.
sackcloth and ashes said,
April 20, 2010 at 8:47 am
If only it was this easy to get rid of ‘resistor’:
resistor said,
April 20, 2010 at 9:19 am
An example of Orange Zionism
http://www.politics.ie/northern-ireland/54226-ian-paisley-launches-northern-ireland-friends-israel.html
So why do the AWL, Jim Denham and Andrew Coates prefer the despicable Godsiff to Salma Yaqoob?
skidmarx said,
April 20, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Why they do, probably because they dislike Islamic social democrats more than they they do New Labour. But is Godsiff really any more despicable than Labour candidates in times gone by, and would the dead-end of community politics Salma represents really be better? I’m yet to be convinced.
Gene said,
April 20, 2010 at 2:17 pm
An example of Orange Zionism
http://www.politics.ie/northern-ireland/54226-ian-paisley-launches-northern-ireland-friends-israel.html
That’s like equating you with David Duke because you’re both anti-Zionists.
skidmarx said,
April 20, 2010 at 3:43 pm
No it isn’t. Paisley is an Orangeman, he was launching a friendsof Israel campaign which qualifies him as a zionists (unless you can find some equally snappy term for pro-Israeli and a reason why “zionist” is unacceptable).
And don’t pretend that leftists aren’t equated to David Duke all the time at Mr.Harry’s Place. Or do pretend if that is your wont. Liberty, if anything, is talking complete and utter shite.[I think that’s a correct interpretation of your site’s motto, though perhaps the google translation has let me down]
Gene said,
April 20, 2010 at 5:19 pm
At Harry’s Place, we’ve simply noted that George Galloway and David Duke have both been welcome guests of the Syrian government, and that some anti-Israel leftists unwittingly quote from David Duke sources about Israel.
BTW did you know that when Yitzhak Shamir was with Lehi, he was such an admirer of the Irish nationalist and freedom fighter Michael Collins that he took the nickname “Michael”?
There is at least as broad a range of “Zionists” as there is of anti-Zionists.
resistor said,
April 20, 2010 at 6:57 pm
‘There is at least as broad a range of “Zionists” as there is of anti-Zionists.’ Including Orange Zionists like Ian Paisley and the AWL. Thank-you for agreeing.
Secondly, Duke has no part in the anti-Zionist movement. However Paisley was welcomed into the Zionist fold by Steven Jaffe, who represents Belfast on the Board of Deputies of British Jews, and its president, Henry Grunwald.
After all, the British military governor of Jerusalem supported the Zionist cause because it would create, ‘a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of hostile Arabs’ (Sir Ronald Storrs, Orientations)
BTW Gene, do you know that Lehi proposed an alliance with the Nazis during the war?
Harry Tuttle said,
April 21, 2010 at 3:57 am
resistor wrote:
Haj Amin al-Husseini not only allied himself to the Nazis, but played a role in recruiting Muslims to the SS. Does that somehow invalidate Palestinian nationalism? Why the double standard?
Gene said,
April 20, 2010 at 8:01 pm
‘There is at least as broad a range of “Zionists” as there is of anti-Zionists.’ Including Orange Zionists like Ian Paisley and the AWL. Thank-you for agreeing.
For agreeing that both believe Israel has the right to exist, and that this makes them equally despicable? You’re welcome.
Secondly, Duke has no part in the anti-Zionist movement. However Paisley was welcomed into the Zionist fold by Steven Jaffe, who represents Belfast on the Board of Deputies of British Jews, and its president, Henry Grunwald.
I know nothing about this, but you seem unaware that there is a whole range of Zionists who would find this repellent.
After all, the British military governor of Jerusalem supported the Zionist cause because it would create, ‘a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of hostile Arabs’ (Sir Ronald Storrs, Orientations)
Some British military officers supported the Zionist cause, some supported the anti-Zionist cause.
BTW Gene, do you know that Lehi proposed an alliance with the Nazis during the war?
So? The alliance never happened and I’m not defending Lehi. Although you probably think so since we’re both, y’know, Zionists.
Gene said,
April 20, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Secondly, Duke has no part in the anti-Zionist movement.
Seems there’s a whole range of anti-Zionists that you don’t know about. What excludes them from the “movement”? The governments of Syria and Iran certainly consider Duke a part of the anti-Zionist movement. The former has welcomed his fellow anti-Zionist George Galloway to Damascus a number of times, and the latter employs Galloway mostly to spew anti-Zionist views on Press TV.
Hathem said,
April 20, 2010 at 9:28 pm
@# 40 resistor,
that’s one of the best best rebukes of zionism i have ever read. fantastic.
charliethechulo said,
April 20, 2010 at 11:02 pm
“Orange Zionism” is an interesting, if somewhat unclear concept. It seems to be a term coined by the political and personal hooligan and half-wit Mr Ger Francis.
Let me put the following to Mr Francis and others of his ilk (ie “resister”, “Hathem” ,etc): there is another political colour-combination, that I submit applies to you lot:
“Red-Brown anti-Zionism”: look it up if you don’t understand.
ger francis said,
April 21, 2010 at 8:52 am
Is Jimbo related to Martin Mullaney?
resistor said,
April 21, 2010 at 9:55 am
Tell me Charlie, what happened to Yitzhak Shamir after he proposed an alliance with the – Nazis? They made him Prime Minister of Israel twice. How many other countries have had Nazi-sympathisers as their prime minister? Even today they have a blatant Fascist foreign minister.
“Red-Brown Zionism”: look it up if you don’t understand.
sackcloth and ashes said,
April 21, 2010 at 1:54 pm
‘resistor’, you appear to be under the misapprehension that this website is for people like you. It’s not. It’s for progressive leftists. Fuck off back to the David Duke fan-club and stay there.
Oh, and in answer to your question, we could include Egypt (Nasser gave shelter to hundreds of war criminals, including Leopold Gleim, who helped train his Mukhabarat), Syria (haven for Walter Rauff, who had some interesting chats with the Grand Mufti Amin el-Husseini during his visit to Nazi Germany in 1942, as detailed by Klaus-Michael Mallmann and Martin Cuppers), and Iraq (Rashid al-Kailani). And then of course there’s the small matter of the current Iranian President’s obsession with Holocaust Denial. So maybe by your criteria all these states are illegitimate and should cease to exist.
Fascist piece of shit. FOAD.
sackcloth and ashes said,
April 21, 2010 at 1:55 pm
‘Is Jimbo related to Martin Mullaney?’
That’s the kind of bullshit that only matters to swuppie fuck-ups like yourself.
resistor said,
April 21, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Sackcloth, you reminded me to mention Menachem Begin the Fascist who made friends, and peace, with Anwar Sadat – who was a Nazi sympathiser during the war.
Unlike Zionists such as you I want to see secular socialist states replacing all sectarian states like Israel.
ps Swearing isn’t big or clever and makes you look more of an idiot – which is an achievement of sorts.As Flanders and Swann put it, “Mum’s out, Dad’s out, let’s talk rude/Pee, po, belly, bum, drawers!”
Andrew Coates said,
April 21, 2010 at 4:17 pm
So iw as wrong.
Wrong to so say that the left isn’t holding up the flag for loonyism and that it’s been beaten by the Liberal Democrats and Tories.
(here: http://tendancecoatesy.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/ipswich-election-odd-bods/
I salut your courage and indefatigability Resister.
But please do not smear with association with anyone who uses Steve Wright’s name in politics.
For you see…
I live in Ipswich.
Gene said,
April 21, 2010 at 6:35 pm
Secondly, Duke has no part in the anti-Zionist movement.
Uh huh.
http://hurryupharry.org/2010/04/21/the-palestine-telegraph-and-david-duke/
Max Dunbar said,
April 21, 2010 at 6:50 pm
‘‘resistor’, you appear to be under the misapprehension that this website is for people like you. It’s not. It’s for progressive leftists. Fuck off back to the David Duke fan-club and stay there.’
To be fair many of our commenters are equally deranged and can by no means be described as progressive left.
sackcloth and ashes said,
April 21, 2010 at 9:26 pm
‘Sackcloth, you reminded me to mention (sic) Menachem Begin the Fascist who made friends, and peace, with Anwar Sadat – who was a Nazi sympathiser during the war.’
And you remind me of a brownshirt piece of shit who didn’t manage basic grammar, let alone A Level history.
‘Unlike Zionists such as you I want to see secular socialist states replacing all sectarian states like Israel.’
Which is why you are such an indefatigable foe of the anti-Semitism sponsored by Arab states, not to mention the persecution of Sunnis by the theocratic regime in Tehran … oh wait … I forgot. You’re a two-faced scumbag who wants to have a pop at the Joooosss!!!
‘ps Swearing isn’t big or clever and makes you look more of an idiot ‘
My willingness to drop ‘f’ bombs does not detract from the fact that your mind is a sewer. So FOAD. Sow a vagina into your head so someone can fuck some sense into you, you complete and utter O2 thief.
ger francis said,
April 21, 2010 at 11:02 pm
‘To be fair many of our commenters are equally deranged and can by no means be described as progressive left.’
Really? You think so?? I blame all that Orange Zionism. It’s a nasty drink.
sackcloth and ashes said,
April 22, 2010 at 6:56 am
It beats the RESPECT Cool-Aid any time, Ger. Wasn’t that supposed to be the new party that would rally the masses behind Jon and Lindsay?
Oh, and ‘resistor’, it’s ‘Ma’s out, Pa’s out, let’s play rude etc etc’. But then someone who tells lies about history is hardly likely to check he’s got lyrics right, is he?
ger francis said,
April 22, 2010 at 7:28 am
Well, at least SA is an open and unashamed drinker of the vile brew. Best cure is a good dose of Viva Palestina. Try some. And if you think the OZ brand is a winner, please come to Birmingham for a reality check.
resistor said,
April 22, 2010 at 9:15 am
I see sackcloth has extreme violent rape fantasies, how typical of an Orange Zionist.
Max, you should question the mental health of posters, glass houses etc. As for you being part of the progressive left, pull the other one.
As for Andrew Coates’ strange posting – what has Steven Wright got to do with anything here? Tendance Coatesy? More like Tendance Goatse!
skidmarx said,
April 22, 2010 at 10:05 am
For sackcloth to complain about someone else’s fact-checking when he can’t spell John Rees’ first name, has failed to notice that Ger Francis and his brand of Respect have not exactly been entranced by the mysteries of Mr.Rees for a while now,well if you have an arse for a head you’ll still be more stupid than you look.
There’s only one way to settle this:
sackcloth and ashes said,
April 22, 2010 at 12:16 pm
‘Well, at least SA is an open and unashamed drinker of the vile brew.’
It’s called ‘irony’, Ger.
‘Best cure is a good dose of Viva Palestina.’
You’re recommending I hang out with some Hamas cheerleaders? Is that your idea of fun? What is it you love about those chaps so much? The Jew-hatred, or the summary execution of so-called collaborators?:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7099074.ece
‘And if you think the OZ brand is a winner, please come to Birmingham for a reality check.’
I think you need the reality check, Ger. After all, the only success you’re likely to have on May 6th is to hand Poplar and Canning town to the Tories.
‘I see sackcloth has extreme violent rape fantasies’
Where did you get that idea from, you mersey trout? Are you on the meths again, or are you simply projecting the contents of your warped and tiny mind?
‘For sackcloth to complain about someone else’s fact-checking when he can’t spell John Rees’ first name, has failed to notice that Ger Francis and his brand of Respect have not exactly been entranced by the mysteries of Mr.Rees for a while now,well if you have an arse for a head you’ll still be more stupid than you look.’
Oh, mea culpa. I’m so sorry for (1) spelling a non-entity’s name wrong and (2) confusing one brand of pseudo-left wankers for another. Here’s my apology, skidmarxxx, and it’s sincerely meant:
Incidentally, your choice of moniker is slang for a shit-stain in someone’s underwear. Most appropriate, if I may say so.
skidmarx said,
April 22, 2010 at 2:55 pm
You may say so. Though spelled the way it is, I like to think it indicatesa certain allegiance to what you call pseudo-left wankery, combined with a lack of pomposity that derives from your reading. “Skidmarks” are also what can be seen after a vehicle makes an ill-advised turn. Perhaps if you are going to use “sackcloth and ashes” as a moniker, a little more genuine humility might be appropriate?
So you are actually Jim Denham?
Lobby Ludd said,
April 22, 2010 at 7:53 pm
I always thought “Sackcloth and Ashes” was a name adopted by sweary misanthropic Will Brown some time ago, after an unfortunate series of sexually and violently obscene posts – kind of “Will-lite” as a concession to those who had up to then tolerated had him.
Perhaps SandA, on the other hand, is a tribute act.
maxdunbar said,
April 22, 2010 at 7:55 pm
This is a silly thread, isn’t it?
‘As for Andrew Coates’ strange posting – what has Steven Wright got to do with anything here? Tendance Coatesy? More like Tendance Goatse!’
Resistor? More like ‘Onanistor’!
Bdm-tssh! I’ll be here all night.
maxdunbar said,
April 22, 2010 at 7:56 pm
‘Really? You think so?? I blame all that Orange Zionism. It’s a nasty drink.’
Do you think we could merchandise this?
‘Finally, a soft drink that combines natural orange fruit goodness with the added zing of Zionism’
Harry Tuttle said,
April 22, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Ger –
Is George Galloway aware that’s he listed as a patron of the Palestine Telegraph?
resistor said,
April 22, 2010 at 11:50 pm
Max you’ve used ‘onanistor’ before so zero for originality. Perhaps you might explain what you think it means.
sackcloth and ashes said,
April 23, 2010 at 8:18 am
‘resistor’, I see you’ve passed up the opportunity to substantiate your claim that I enjoy ‘violent rape fantasies’. Would either admit that you were having another psychotic episode, or that you’re doing what you always do when you’re caught out, which is resort to cheap smears?
Oh and skidmarxxx, I like the alternative definition of your chosen moniker as well, as it highlights the intellectual incoherence and sheer opportunism at the heart of your fringe on the fringe of the extreme left. After all, the idea of getting matey with theocrats would have been unthinkable twenty years ago, wouldn’t it?
Incidentally, I chose my moniker out of a sense of irony, as a rebuttal to those who think that the historical record of the Western world (incorporating colonialism, racism etc) meant that we should automatically reject the tenets of liberalism and social democracy which have prospered since the end of WWII. It’s this refusal to live in a spirit of self-flagellation which makes me express my tuppence worth on these sites. And yes – as Lobby Ludd notes – I’m not tired of the odd ‘f’ or ‘c’-bomb, particularly when dealing with the various turds of the extreme left and right (the two are now almost indistinguishable) I encounter. ‘Resistor’ being a classic case.
Ta ta
resistor said,
April 23, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Sackcloth wrote, “Sow a vagina into your head so someone can fuck some sense into you, you complete and utter O2 thief”
I call that a violent rape fantasy.
skidmarx said,
April 23, 2010 at 5:50 pm
This is a silly thread, isn’t it?
What, like more than usual?
sackcloth and ashes said,
April 26, 2010 at 7:38 am
‘Sackcloth wrote, “Sow a vagina into your head so someone can fuck some sense into you, you complete and utter O2 thief”
I call that a violent rape fantasy.’
‘resistor’, you seem to be unable to grasp basic similes. This is my way of saying ‘You’re a stupid wanker, and a disgrace to the human race’. I don’t have desires to violate anyone sexually, least of all you.
Is that clear, you Strasserite scum?