Of course, Karadzic didn’t know about this…

July 23, 2008 at 8:29 pm (fascism, Guardian, hell, Human rights, Jim D, serbia, stalinism, thuggery, truth, war)

Ed Vulliamy writes in today’s Graun (G2 section) about a meeting with the mass murderer and a visit to a concentration camp at Omarska, which ended with the journalists being bundled out of the camp:

“We had seen very little, and only with time and the trials at the Hague of lower-ranking Bosnian Serbs, did it become clear what Karadzic did not want us to see. Scenes of routine sadism such as that described by survivor Halid Mujkanovic, concerning a prisoner forced to perform fellatio on a fellow inmate, then ordered to bite off his testicles while a live pigeon was stuffed down his throat to stifle his screams as he died. The victim was Fikret Harambasic and the man was forced to castrate him in order to save the lives of his roomates, threatened with execution if there were no ‘volunteers’. The crowd of guards who oversaw this entertainment ‘looked as though they were attending a sports match, supporting a team’, said Mujkanovic.” Read the rest here.

Meanwhile, as predicted, that loathsome apologist for tyrants and mass murder, Neil Clark, uses weasel words to minimise the crimes of Karadzic, glorify his (Clark’s) hero Milosevic, and suggest that no real justice is possible at The Hague. The people who have commented under Clark’s piece are, if anything, even more disgusting than the author himself. Have a look, if you’ve a strong stomach.


  1. Jim Denham said,

    Comment-ator Graeme (below, in comments to “Watch for who’ll now defend Karadzic” ) points out that ‘Spiked Online’ (ie the old RCP) and Mick Hume may have beaten Neil Clark to it:
    And, of course they have form when it comes to making excuses for Karadzic and Serb genocide: it was the RCP who attempted to challenge the truth of Vullaimy’s original 1992 ITN report from the Serb concentration camp at Trpopolje.

  2. modernityblog said,

    you’d think that they might have learned something in the past few years? but no

  3. sackcloth and ashes said,

    The fact that Mick Hume and other RCPers still have media careers after that disgusting act of denialism speaks volumes.

  4. modernityblog said,

    looking at the way the thread at Dave’s is moving, I’ve decided to put together links and information about the massacre at Srebrenica.

    I expect we’ll hear a bit of denial in the next few months and, if not outright denial, then a form of revisionism concerning events at Srebrenica who’s aim is minimalise culpability.

  5. charliethechulo said,

    Lenny ‘Seymour’ Tombstone doesn’t support Karadzic – oh no! He thinks he “might well” be guilty of war crimes! It’s just that the US and Britain are hypocrites because of, er, Iraq, er and the, er, so-called ‘war on terror’, so these hypocrites have no right…etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. Another apologist:

  6. modernityblog said,

    “Let me enumerate the falsehoods: Karadzic is certainly likely to be charged with genocide, now that the ICTY has ruled that Srebrenica was a genocide and Karadzic is believed to have ordered that attack, but he is not going to be charged with ‘masterminding’ the war; Karadzic may be accused of ‘arranging’ the mass murder of 8,000 Muslim males, but I know of no serious source that holds him responsible for ‘arranging’ the mass killing of 100,000 people….”

    even by SWP’s low standards this is iffy,

    again you’d think Syemour might know better?

    I haven’t read the comments box but I’d expect it to be pretty ripe

  7. modernityblog said,

    ye gods, that comment box is full of….

    Paul F’s comment, best sums it up:

    “There are some seriously deranged people contributing to this thread – so much so that, to my surprise, Lenin and Johng have emerged as the champions of some basic socialist decency. At least they are not genocide deniers.

    But their fight back against the Karadzic fan club is hampered by a residual “plague on all your houses” position. They are reluctant to accept the basic historical truth that what happened in Bosnia was a genocidal attack on the multi-ethnic Bosnian state. That attack was planned by the Milosevic regime, used the remnants of the Yugoslav Federal Army, and employed as its hit men Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic.

    It was the elementary duty of socialists, whatever misgivings they may have had about Alija Izetbegovic, to rally to the defence of Bosnia. I really don’t see this as significantly different from socialists rallying to defend the Spanish republic in the 1930s, or opposing Mussolini’s attack on Ethiopia. Did anybody on the left stand back then and say “Well, the Italians are a bunch of fascist thugs, but Haile Selassie has committed war crimes as well”.”


  8. modernityblog said,

    Newman has finally succumb to his baser political emotions, now Newman’s peddling a revisionist agenda at Dave’s.


  9. charliethechulo said,

    This is from Dave’s Part, but it’s so important I thought that I’d put it up here. I’m sure the author, Paul, won’t mind:

    Jock McTrousers is either deliberately lying or can’t be bothered to look up simple facts. If only 45 bodies gave been found, then who are the 3,215 people buried at Potocari, just east of Srebrenica?

    And the number of victims identified so far? 5,200 according to Kerry-Ann Martin, senior forensic anthropologist at the International Commission on Missing Persons (ICMP), cited recently on the excellent “Srebrenica Genocide blog”, a vital resource for those who woud rather honour the victims of genocide than whitewash the perpetrators.

    I shall assume Andy Newman is just too lazy to do some basic homework. The figure of 8,000 hasn’t been conjured out of thin air. The Bosnian government’s Federal Commission for Missing Persons in 2005 issued a list of 8,106 dead and missing – it’s not just a list of names either, it gives the victims’ dates of birth, their parents, and their registration numbers.

    Subsequent research has pushed the number up to 8,470.

    If McTrousers, or any of the other apologists, thinks these named individuals are not dead, then perhaps they’d like to tell their grieving relatives where they are.

    Posted by paul fauvet | 20:31, 26 July 2008

  10. voltairespriest said,

    Some Manc tank (whose post marks him out as an utter twat) has clearly taken umbrage at Jim’s excellent commentary on the Karadzic business.

  11. Exile said,

    Naah, not a tankie – not all those of us who find the followers of St. Leon the Loser a good source of entertainment come into that category. For that reason I would never take umbrage an any drivel that any of his, sorry, His disciples ever utters.

    I’m an easy going drink beer, shag women, hate the boss type of bloke and I use the blog as a sounding board for ideas. You won’t know about them because you have your sacred texts, but if any reader here is serious about building the great tomorrow, then the awful present has to be shagged over first, so let’s look at ways to do that. Look on the bright side, it might even be fun:

    “The greatest happiness is to scatter your enemy, to drive him before you, to see his cities reduced to ashes, to see those who love him shrouded in tears, and to gather into your bosom his wives and daughters.”

    The Great Khan

    “Especially the wives and daughters”

    The Exile

  12. runia said,

    Exile is a pornographer who flogs his videos in the street.
    Take a look at this:

    He is an apologist for all sorts of murderous scum as long as they are ‘anti-imperialists’.

    Best ignored and preferably deleted.

  13. modernityblog said,

    runia, agreed

  14. Exile said,

    Runia? Naah, that’s little Willy, that is. Only that sad little inadequate could write like that.

    Modernity – how’s Patrick Michael Dawn?

  15. runia said,

    “Runia? Naah, that’s little Willy, that is”

    Not even close.

    I do think of Exile like Will thinks of 99% of blog commentators though, so I can see why a simple minded fool like him would draw that conclusion.

    Just saying like.
    No offence like.

  16. Simple Sasha Serb Soft Soaper said,

    Same person, but where did he get the figure of 20,000 from?

    Double standards
    The media celebration over the capture of Bosnian Serb warlord Radovan Karadzic has very little to do with any notion of “justice” for his victims.
    It continues a simplistic myth put forward by Western leaders and the media in the 1990s – that ancient ethnic divisions lay behind the break-up of Yugoslavia and that the Serbs were the chief aggressors.
    Portraying the Balkan tragedy as the result of a simple clash between “good” and “bad” was useful for the West. It hid its role in the break-up of the country and justified Western intervention.
    The disintegration of Yugoslavia was bloody and all sections of its multi-ethnic population suffered pogroms and ethnic cleansing.
    But while the “international community” hunted for Serb war criminals, it supported the likes of Croatia’s notorious President, Franjo Tudjman – who has the blood of 20,000 Croatian Serbs on his hands.
    Tony Blair and Bill Clinton waged a brutal war on Serbia in 1999 in the name of “humanitarian intervention”.
    Karadzic’s arrest provides an excellent opportunity for those who supported the West’s war on Serbia to rehabilitate this discredited doctrine.
    He will probably be brought before the Hague to answer for the deaths of the 12,000 people who died in the siege of Sarajevo and the massacre of 7,500 Bosnian Muslims from Srebrenica.
    But the idea that Blair or Clinton could be brought to justice for the deaths caused by their war is treated as absurd.
    As is the idea that George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Condoleeza Rice or Tony Blair might also be bought before a United Nations tribunal to answer for the deaths of over one million Iraqis or for creating chaos in Afghanistan.
    The media is too busy celebrating Karadzic’s capture to even pose the question.
    As far as the bourgeois media is concerned, genocide is something that is only carried out by others.
    Alek Barbulj, Hackney, east London


    Letters: War crimes
    Karadzic will face tribunal, but what of the other leaders?
    Friday, 25 July 2008

    The media circus over the capture of Radovan Karadzic has little to do with any notion of “justice” for his victims. Rather it is a continuation of the simplistic myth, peddled by Western leaders and the media through the Nineties, that the disintegration of Yugoslavia was the result of ancient ethnic hatreds and that the Serbs were the chief aggressors in the break-up.
    The portrayal of the Balkan tragedy in terms of “goodies” and “baddies” disguised the West’s own role in the break-up of Yugoslavia and made Western military intervention there much easier to sell to the people of Europe and America. It also made Western relations with the newly created republics of the region in the post-war period a lot more simple.
    The disintegration of Yugoslavia was bloody and all sections of Yugoslavia’s multi-ethnic population suffered pogroms and ethnic cleansing but, while the “international community” hunted for Serb war criminals, it supported the likes of Croatia’s notorious President, Franjo Tudjman. He had the blood of 20,000 Croatian Serbs on his hands and had overseen the ethnic cleansing of 275,000 Croatian Serbs in the Krajina, but he was not troubled by the prospect of a tribunal in The Hague. Karadzic’s arrest also provides an excellent opportunity for those who supported the West’s war on Serbia, and who continue to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, to rehabilitate the discredited doctrine of “humanitarian intervention”.
    Karadzic will probably be brought before a tribunal in The Hague to answer for the deaths of the 12,000 in Sarajevo and the 7,500 Bosnian Muslims from Srebrenica. But the idea of bringing George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Condoleezza Rice, or Tony Blair before a UN tribunal to answer for the deaths of 100,000 Iraqis or, for turning Afghanistan into an abattoir, is absurd.
    Sasha Simic
    London N16


  17. Voltaire's Priest said,

    Exile: Firstly, I haven’t been a paid up trot for the best part of a decade. Secondly, I think Runia’s right.

    No offence, like, etc.

  18. Exile said,

    Once a Trot always a Trot… The 20th August anniversary is on the horizon – I think that I will take a trip over to Coyoacan and see if anyone is around planning to get a belly full of beer, climb over a certain wall, and then have a piss over a certain grave.

    Runia, I am sorry to say, was Modernity, at least in the second incarnation. Little lad’s still annoyed about his Patrick Michal Dawn spoof site that I found out about. Silly sod was gloating on some forum or other.

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