The socialist case against Scottish independence … in a nutshell

June 2, 2014 at 6:45 pm (AWL, internationalism, national liberation, posted by JD, reactionay "anti-imperialism", scotland, Steve Bell, workers)

Steve Bell 25.2.2014

I’ve never seen or heard it expressed better, or more succinctly, than this from my comrade Patrick Murphy:

Something I will never understand is left wing support for Scottish independence.

This is not a matter of championing the RIGHT to self-determination against national oppression, rather it consists of socialists running around trying to persuade an electorate which has been consistently opposed to independence and prefers unity that they are wrong and should separate from their fellow-workers across national borders

The default position of the entire socialist tradition is for internationalism and no borders. The right to self-determination is an important exception to address particular conditions (colonies, Ireland, Palestine etc). It’s not the norm and we certainly shouldn’t be agitating for it where those conditions don’t exist in any meaningful sense.

Yet another bizarre reflection of a loss of political bearings.

9 Comments

  1. The socialist case against Scottish independence … in a nutshell | OzHouse said,

    […] Jun 02 2014 by admin […]

  2. WILL CASEY PURVIS said,

    INDEPENDENCE IS BEING UNDER THE ENGLISH????
    YO’RE NOT A SCOT [1000 YEARS] YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND.
    ALL PRAISE TO THE 51ST

  3. WILL CASEY PURVIS said,

    YOU’RE A FAG MAGAZINE

  4. Peter said,

    Yes but it’s becoming an awfully difficult position to sustain. It’ s not just the Left here thats pro-Independence , its just about any progressive person-
    sick to death with 35 years of neo-liberalism and the prospect of another 5 years of it with bells on if the Tories get a majority or are involved in a lash up with UKIP. If the polls show that the Tories might win the next General Election come September , i wouldn’t bet on it being a No vote
    Arguments about the unity of the labour movement , trying to get it to assert itself etc have very little credibility in circumstances where the last serious class fightback was the Miner’s Strike of 30 years ago. I’m not saying these arguments are wrong , but they just don’t carry much weight.

    • Joe Baxter said,

      Firstly the whole of the left in Scotland is not pro-independence. Of course I suppose that depends on how you want to define left – there is still a sizeable section of the labour movement which would consider itself ”progressive” and for a No vote. The left that is in favour of a Yes vote is certainly very vocal. And you’re correct to point out that the main reason given by those on the left who will vote Yes is the chance to cut themselves off from the neo-liberal politics in Government down south. But to put it that way is to lay bare the hopelessness that underlies such thinking. People on the ‘left’ who will vote Yes have given up on the possibility of a labour movement below the border ever being able to assert itself, have instead adopted the idea that somehow ‘we’ are different and in the meantime will run around doing the SNP’s work for it. If you think I’m exaggerating have a look at this;

      and this;

      Sorry but don’t know how to make these hyperlinks.

      • WILL CASEY PURVIS said,

        HANG ON YOU STUPID NO MORONS. YOU’RE NOT REALLY SCOTS. SCOTS ARE TOUGH FIGHTERS.
        YOU WHINE BABIES WOULD BE BEGGING THE KRAUTS NOT TO HURT YOU. PLEASE DON’T HURT ME.
        I WANT THE STUPID ENGLISH TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO.
        LOOK I’M SUCKING THE GROUND. IDIOTS

  5. Rosie said,

    It’s a kind of “socialism in one small country” mentality. So now when anything bad happens – food banks, disabled losing benefits bank scams – the Yesses say, Ah-ha – that won’t happen after independence.

    • WILL CASEY PURVIS said,

      SOCIALISM IS FOR MORONS WHO CAN’T WIPE THEIR OWN BUTTS
      SEND THE SOCIALISTS TO CHINA OR SOME OTHER DUMP

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