Gaddafi’s foreign legion says “count the cost!”
The people who were willing to see the Libyan rebels massacred by Gaddafi in Benghazi and have been calling for an end to Nato’s bombing ever since, have been scratching around for their reason(s) for the last three months.
These people come from both the isolationist right and the “anti-imperialist” “left”, but in practice it is usually impossible to distinguish between the two. Their “reasons” have ranged from the simulataneously preposterous and banal idea that by saving the rebels, Nato in fact wishes to strangle the revolution, to the bourgeois argument about regime change being “illegal”. For most of the “left” opponents of Nato’s campaign, however, it seems to come down to:
a/ a residual (but increasingly overt) sympathy with the Gaddafi regime as in some way “anti imperialist”;
and
b/ an ahistorical, thoroughly un-Marxist opposition to all “intervention” under any circumstances.
Until the last couple of days, however, the anti-intervention forces have not (outside the pages of the Daily Mail, anyway) used the worst and most reactionary argument of all: cost (to the taxpayer).
Now Ian Katz , deputy editor of the Graun and one Daniel Martin of the Daily Mail have both seized upon Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander’s comments on the true cost of the operation running into “hundreds of millions,’ contradicting previous government estimates of “tens of millions”.
At a time of cuts, it is suggested, the money could be better spent upon the (British) health service or (British) housing or (British) education…etc, etc.
Naturally, this loathsome, reactionary “case” against the Nato intervention has been taken up by Ms Lindsey German of the so-called “Stop The War Coalition“: it was always a bad argument, even against clearly unnecessary wars like Iraq. It is nationalist, isolationaist, and parochial. It’s an argument that could be (and is) used against foreign aid and immigration. Which is why the BNP have exactly the same position on Libya as the ‘Stop The War Coalition’ (I don’t like linking to fascist sites, but if anyone doubts what I say, and has a strong stomach, here‘s the proof).
A much more principled argument against the Nato intervention is provided by the deaths of civilians as a result of a botched airstrike in the Souk al-Juma district of eastern Tripoli yesterday. It was a tragedy in which many civilians, including children, died. Those of us who do not oppose what Nato are doing have always known that such an incident was virtually inevitable, have taken that into account in our decision and are willing to answer for it. But only absolute pacifists (ie not people like Ms German who run “Stop The War”) can honestly use it as an argument against what Nato is doing.
Meanwhile, rebel forces in Misrata are complaining that “Nato will not allow us to get weapons and they will not finish the war themselves” (Colonel Salah Badhi, to Tom Coghlin in today’s Times).
Jim Denham said,
June 21, 2011 at 9:08 am
Parade of scabs:
“Tuesday 28 June 6pm Protest: Stop Bombing Libya. Downing Street, London. Jeremy Corbyn MP, poet Sanasino among those joining us. More details to follow” – “Stop The War” Coalition.
Max Dunbar said,
June 21, 2011 at 10:45 am
Fantastic post. As Jim says, the Daily Mail is against Libya intervention for the exact same reason they are against international aid. Not a penny more for the foreigners!
skidmarx said,
June 21, 2011 at 3:07 pm
it was always a bad argument, even against clearly unnecessary wars like Iraq.
Now if anyone else had said that would not Jimbo be calling them an apologist for Saddam?
Jim Denham said,
June 21, 2011 at 4:30 pm
No
flyingrodent said,
June 23, 2011 at 9:49 am
Well, this is some wacky stuff. Call me a hopeless materialist if you will, but saying We are allocating a bajillion quid to Wars of Freedom and anyone who objects is a bastard who hates the victims of tyranny is all well and good, but it misses the point that these Wars of Freedom actually have to achieve something. If they don’t, then the population is 100% right to see this as a waste of resources.
Today’s papers suggest that bombing Libya may wind up costing £1bn; we know that Afghanistan has been costing us between £2bn and £4bn a year for a decade, and Christ knows how much Iraq set us back.
If all these wars work perfectly and have an excellent outcome, you’re entitled to then say things like Oh, you hateful reactionaries don’t want to spend money on helping foreigners. Fire away, knock yourselves out!
If they don’t work – if, in fact, they just kill a hell of a lot of people for no effect – then you might as well advocate burning billions of quid with a flamethrower while offering up prayers for Freedom and Democracy to Odin, money that would certainly be useful for building hospitals, new public housing and could even fund much-needed job creation programmes instead, if we didn’t have such a shit government.
I mean, let’s not forget who exactly it is that’s paying for these escapades here – the tax burden falls disproportionately on low-income workers, and not one of our wars looks like achieving anything like a concrete, permanent gain.
Your current position is that the UK is correct to give billions upon billions of pounds of ordinary people’s money to the shareholders of BAE Systems, in exchange for absolutely fuck all, and that all objection to this hare-brained scheme is unacceptable, Daily Mail-esque, selfish contempt for foreigners. This, at a time when the Tory government are using the banker-driven financial crisis as an excuse to crack down on those same ordinary people and enrich their own Croesus-rich pals.
Do you ever test these talking points out on the public, by the way, or do you just bash them out and then bicker with Skidmarx et al? How many voters do you think would agree that, say, bombing Libya or keeping tens of thousands of soldiers in Afghanistan is worth billions upon billions of pounds, while public services are being slashed?
Why not try asking, and see what they say?
Oscar stil wundering why he fuckking bothers said,
June 23, 2011 at 2:34 pm
“it misses the point that these Wars of Freedom actually have to achieve something. If they don’t, then the population is 100% right to see this as a waste of resources.”
read up to that point then stopped. obviously writtereated by a cretin and utter moroaN.
johng said,
June 23, 2011 at 5:09 pm
“Do you ever test these talking points out on the public”
It might be worth tackling these points with any mildly literate cross section of an audience from any of the countries under discussion. Oddly enough this is something most of the decent sort run a million miles from. They prefer to pretend that the only people they have to talk to are naive western self haters or something of that sort. Its a conceit that works if you have billions of pounds being spent on military hardware. The rest of us have to rely on arguments and stuff like that. Its more complicated then cruise missiles.
maxdunbar said,
June 23, 2011 at 5:12 pm
Flying Rodent
‘Do you ever test these talking points out on the public, by the way, or do you just bash them out and then bicker with Skidmarx et al?’
No, because we are not politicians, and aren’t accountable to the public
Still, anyone can read this blog, I guess
Jim Denham said,
June 23, 2011 at 5:15 pm
Rodent: the chemically pure voice of the Jenkinsite isolationist right.
It would be nice (but probably too hopeful) to think that leftists who agree with his conclusion, will be given pause for thought by this.
Btw: the Libyan rebels and the people of Benghazi don’t seem to agree that the Nato intervention has been ineffective – after all, they’re still alive.
And yes: I do argue the point publicly, sometimes in front of hostile audiences (eg Unite United Left AGM).