Degenerate “socialists” welcome the Pope
It’s come to this in degenerate, ex-’Marxist’ circles, where they don’t care about, or excuse away, child abuse, misogyny, homophobia and opposition birth control. These grovelling traitors to socialism and secularism even refer to “ his Holiness Benedict XVI”; read what the loathsome Socialist Unity blog has to say about the forthcoming visit (at taxpayers’ expense) of that enemy of humanity, Pope Benedict XVI:
POPE WELCOME HERE
The forthcoming official state visit to Britain by his Holiness Benedict XVI, is less than a month away. It will be an event of enormous significance for Roman Catholics in Britain, and as the Daily Telegraph correctly observes:
“If Benedict XVI is greeted with hostility and manufactured scandals, then British Christianity as a whole will be weakened. And, in the eyes of hundreds of millions of Catholics around the world, our national reputation will be damaged. The Pope’s visit is more than a great event for Catholics: it is a test of Britain’s professionalism, hospitality, tolerance and maturity. “
There is still a deep well of anti-Catholic prejudice, and sub-conscious “bash the Pope” feeling in Britain, that is now boosted by a strident and self-serving “secularism”. Christianity is still a major cultural and social force, and its representatives are worthy of respect. This is entirely necessary if we are to continue to develop and defend our inclusive multi-cultural society. We must show mutual respect and tolerance to those of all faiths and none, and explore ways that people of all races, creeds, lifestyle choices and sexual orientations can muddle along together.
The blog Catholic Culture, makes an interesting observation:
An Episcopalian bishop has been restored to authority in the Diocese of Pennsylvania, despite an earlier suspension for his gross mishandling of sex-abuse complaints. An ecclesiastical tribunal found that the bishop could not be deposed for his misconduct, because it occurred 35 years ago and the statute of limitations had tolled.
There was absolutely no media scandal or newspaper coverage, because child-abuse by non-Catholics is regarded as a non story. The scandal of child sexual abuse is not restricted to the Roman church, and the vast majority of Roman Catholic clergy are good, honest men who would never have acted in such a way, or colluded with it.
There is a danger that a toxic cocktail of anti-Popery and brittle atheist intolerance may yet overshadow the visit, which would be a terrible blow to liberalism and multi-culturalism. Yet self-publicists and simpletons are running a campaign based upon misinformation about Benedict XVI. For example, Peter Tatchell has launched a petition against the state visit. Tatchell says:
“Amazingly, there is not a word in the government’s response [to the anti-Catholic petition] about the child sex abuse scandal and the Pope’s role in its cover up.”
Mr Tatchell urged people who did not agree with the visit to join the Protest the Pope coalition, which he said would be holding a large demonstration in London on Saturday September 18th, during the visit.
He is currently filming a Channel 4 documentary about the Pope which he said would be screened before or during the trip.
As Jack Valero, (from Guardian CiF) clearly explained about the child sex scandals, and how since taking office, Benedict XVI has done far more than John Paul II to address this scandal.
But wasn’t Ratzinger in charge while all this was going on? Didn’t it happen on his watch? No. From 1981 to 2001 he was in charge of a department that dealt with defrocking, but not with suspensions and penalties for paedophile priests, which were the responsibility of local bishops. A number of bishops failed to suspend the abusive priests, some of whom continued to abuse. That is the scandal. It has been exposed and dealt with, and a number of bishops have, as a result, resigned. More important, guidelines are now in place to prevent it ever happening again.
Not only was Cardinal Ratzinger not complicit in these failures, he was the Vatican official who most clearly saw what was needed to tackle the problem. Then, in 2001, Pope John Paul asked him to review the local churches’ handling of clerical abuse cases. Cardinal Ratzinger asked bishops around the world to forward to him all cases where credible allegations had been made against priests.
He did this not to “cover up” the crimes – which had been reported to the local police – but to ensure that the priests were more speedily dealt with. He accomplished this by amending the procedure for defrocking to allow for a fast-track procedure that did not involve trials.
Some try to make out that Cardinal Ratzinger’s 2001 letter orders a cover-up by insisting that parties observe secrecy under pain of excommunication. What it actually says is that confidentiality should be observed during church trials, to allow the victims to give evidence freely and to protect the accused until found guilty. There is nothing in that letter preventing victims reporting the case to the police, and the assumption is that they should.
Pope Benedict is not responsible for cover-up, collusion, turning a blind eye, institutional idolatry or any of the other accusations that, with greater or lesser vehemence, have been hurled at the Catholic church during recent weeks. On the contrary, he is the one in the Vatican who has done most to rid the church of this scourge. He is the one who has acted most consistently and energetically to improve the church’s handling of these cases…
…grovels ‘Cardinal’ Numan.
But there is hope, even at ‘Socialist Unity’:
“I think you are very confused, Andy.
“Liberalism does not require that you “respect” beliefs you consider to be false. Only that you tolerate them.
“Also, I know that free speech is not something you value very highly (given what you write about Cuba, China and Iran) but it is an essential part of our political tradition. For a figure as divisive and controversial as the pope to arrive without vocal opposition would reflect poorly on us as a liberal society.
“Anyway…you might just have convinced me to turn up at one of the anti-pope demos, so well done!
Comment by Alex — 8 August, 2010 @ 10:14 am“
* So be on the left side: protest the Pope: http://www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/

Will said,
August 9, 2010 at 1:02 am
Stupid random abuse.
stroppybird said,
August 9, 2010 at 8:49 am
http://stroppyblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/respect-homophobia-sexism-and-child.html
Kuching Hitam said,
August 9, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Stalinism … catholicism … The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
entdinglichung said,
August 9, 2010 at 12:37 pm
next time on SU: “the Vatican constitution – an inspiration for a socialist future?”
Kuching Hitam said,
August 9, 2010 at 12:38 pm
resistor said,
August 9, 2010 at 12:43 pm
‘So be on the left side: protest the Pope’
What a give-away. This is an Americanism, we in the UK say ‘protest against’ – even your slogans come from the land of Coca-Cola.
By the way, this ‘campaign’ is run by a New Labour PR scumbag called Paul Blanchard who boasts of his work for the Territorial Army and the Royal Dragoon Guards.
Will said,
August 9, 2010 at 12:47 pm
Stupid random abuse.
Will said,
August 9, 2010 at 11:18 pm
Comment number 133
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=6434#comment-250451
I am a priest and consider myself a socialist.
The biggest protest which will take place in Scotland will be a half empty Bellahouston Park. 300 000 turned up in 1982. This time, 100 000 tickets have been distributed. At least 50 000 have been returned.
Ordinary, working class, educated, ‘aware’ Catholics are boycotting the event in their tens of thousands. (In one parish in Fife the priest put up two notices, one for the Papal Mass, one for the parish picnic. 129 names went up for the picnic, 6 for the Papal Mass.)
The reasons for this will be debated. However, there is no doubt in my mind that contributing factors are:
- Ratzinger, in 25 years as head of the CDF ignored thousands of complaints against predatory priests, yet excommunicated theolgians and authors who questioned catholic orthodoxy, in a matter of weeks after their perceived crime.
- He is systematically demolishing Vatican II Council which most Catholics saw as a much needed breath of fresh air, coming as it did, after two world wars. There is also great fondness in the hearts of many catholics for the author of Vatican II, Pope John XXIII. They despise what Ratzinger has done to the memory of this good man.
- He, along with JPII, supported every group of right wing nutcases within the Catholic Church including the objectionable Opus Dei and Legionaires of Christ, while at the same time attacking Catholic groups who were fighting for social justice and human rights across the globe. (Every Catholic knows a priest, brother or nun who is working in the third world with the poorest of the poor. They then look at these old men farting around in the Vatican in their Cappa Magnas and birettas living a lavish lifestyle. They KNOW who’s who.)
- It is not forgotten that one week after Oscar Romero left the Vatican in tears after JPII and Ratzinger refused to back him, he was shot dead. Any Catholic who is NOW aware of what happened in Latin America in the seventies and eighties see Ratzinger as the enemy of justice.
- Ratzinger continues to not only harbour, but give a place of prominence, to Cardinal Bernard Law as arch-priest of St Mary Major’s Basilica, the second most prestigious church after St Peter’s. It is a continuing scandal and sends out a very clear message to all Bishops and Cardinals – dont cooperate with the police and you will be rewarded.
- Ratzinger continues to surround himself with discredited characters – Cardinal Sodano who supported the animal, Marcel Maciel. – Cardinal Bertone, another friend of Maciel’s and a man who attempted to blame child abuse on gay priests. – Castrillon Hoyos, the Cardinal who publicly praised a French Bishop who lied to protect one of France’s most infamous child abusing priests.
- Ratzinger attempting to fast track sainthoods for now discredited Popes, Pius XIIth and JPII.
- Ratzinger’s welcoming of holocaust denier Bishop Williamson and all his friends who left the Church after Vat II.
- His welcoming of mysogonist and homophobic MARRIED priests from the Anglican Church – while still demanding celibacy from his own priests!!
- His attacks on women in the Church and the hypocrisy of his outbursts against gay people.
- His often quoted remark about the church having to grow smaller in order to purify itself. He has set out to rid the Church of some of its most excellent, compassionate people. He will see the empty spaces at Bellahouston next month and… it wont bother him one bit. And evryone knows it.
Fair play to those who turn up to protest but the biggest noise will be made by Catholics who are refusing to attend and be associated with this nasty man in any way.
Comment by JRB — 9 August, 2010 @ 1:03 pm
jim denham said,
August 9, 2010 at 11:56 pm
More good stuff from “JRB” over at Cardinal Nooman’s missnamed “Socialist Unity”, this time about “Hitler’s Pope”, Pius XII:
262.Theresa.
I’ve had this argument on another site. You trot out the two most often quoted defences of Pius XII found on the same web page on the net. You want to convince me that he was a saint coz you googled a page?
Go and do some serious history. Read about the Vatican concordats with the fascists of Germany, Italy, Spain and Portugal. Read the pleas to him in a letter from the German Archbishop for help in protecting German Jews. (You wont read Pius’ reply because he didnt reply.) Try telling the people of Rome that he is a saint when they watched him allow the Nazis to carry off all the Jews in Rome. And what about the papal edict written by his predecessor which called persecution of the Jews evil and would have been seen by German Catholics as an order not to join the army? Pius the XIIthe read it and refused to sign it. He binned it!! (Go to National Catholic Reporter to read it and weep.) He was a coward who failed to lead when most needed.
Ratzinger – your adoration of him is again ignorant and ill founded. He more than anyone in the Church, abandoned the poor in Latin America. He sacked priests who strove for political change, as good as pulled the trigger on Romero. He sacked on the spot or excommunicated any priest or theologian who criticised catholic doctrine, while he misplaced thousands of letters of complaint over 25 years about priests buggering children. He also issued the letter to all Bishops in 2001 in which he ordered all such cases to be dealt with by his office. He was then able to utterly halt the process of protecting children and exposing abusers.
When victims of Marcel Maciel went to him for justice in the nineties claiming that he had sexually abused them, he said that his hands were tied because of the statute of limitations in Canon Law. In 1999, the same victims went back to claim that Maciel had made them go to confession about the abuse (thus rendering them silent) – a ‘crime’ in Canon Law which carries no statute of limitations and means immediate excommunication – Ratzinger…… changed the statute of limitations on that crime too!! That is the behaviour of a sociopath.
If you’ve come on this site to drivel nonsense please make it informed nonsense.
Comment by JRB — 10 August, 2010 @ 12:46 am
johng said,
August 10, 2010 at 7:45 am
whats this got to do with Harry’s Place offering guest posts to a man who calls black people n******s?
Just asking like, as shiraz seem to have gone into a hysterical storm of whataboutary to defend their mates on HP.
John Meredith said,
August 10, 2010 at 7:52 am
“whats this got to do with Harry’s Place offering guest posts to a man who calls black people n******s?”
They didn’t. They withdrew posting rights when this came to light. Unlike the SWP which vigorously promoted a notorious antisemite for three years on a variety of platforms. Funny old world.
James Bloodworth said,
August 10, 2010 at 9:28 am
“whats this got to do with Harry’s Place offering guest posts to a man who calls black people n******s?”
He didn’t realise that at Harry’s Place you’re supposed to constantly froth about “Muslims” rather than focus directly on skin colour.
One may think an obsession with followers of a certain monotheism might be because you are a little bit racist, but in Harry’s Place land that would make you a Trot/Islamist/Guardian reading/anti-Semitic Gallowayite.
jim denham said,
August 10, 2010 at 4:49 pm
I realise that truth and Gameboy are scarcely on nodding terms, but what the hell does he mean by this:
“whats this got to do with Harry’s Place offering guest posts to a man who calls black people n******s?
Just asking like, as shiraz seem to have gone into a hysterical storm of whataboutary to defend their mates on HP”?
Questions for Gamboy:
1/ What exactly has *anyone* at ‘Shiraz’ done to defend HP over that particular matter – or anything else?
2/ Are you suggesting that ‘Shiraz’, or anyone associated with it, approved of HP hosting comments from that racist? Or even defended them over it? If so, when and where? You’re not, of course, confusing us with Nooman over at Socialist Unity, who despite his denunciations of HP, is guilty of hosting comments from the self-same racist?
2/ How are HP our “mates”?
Rosie said,
August 10, 2010 at 5:32 pm
I am a friend of HP. I comment there and do the occasional piece for the arts section. I was pretty amazed at the Terry Fitz affair, as he didn’t come across like that at all in any postings or comments. However I don’t know how writing about other stuff rather than Terry Fitz can be construed as a “storm of whataboutery”. The Pope’s visit is big news, after all.
However, now johng is over here perhaps he could answer my question that I posed over at Pickled Politics:-
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/9487#comment-215757
He said:- (comment 39)
I said:- (comment 43, moniker KB Player)
To which johng replies (comment 48:-
No, I don’t think I have seen an HP’er denying that what was done to Muslims in Bosnia was genocide or ethnic cleansing or something wicked like that. Perhaps you are getting them mixed up with RCP/Marxism Today/Spiked? But where does DT say something like:- “It was disgraceful to fight against the genocide of Muslims in Bosnia?” Some quotes would be useful, if you could supply them.
maxdunbar said,
August 10, 2010 at 7:39 pm
John G proves us guilty of whataboutery by shouting: ‘What about this?’
The child abuse scandal is a little more important don’t you think?
I will say that HP has allowed its comments over the years to become a cesspool of racism and its policy of giving posting rights to anyone who asks was an accident waiting to happen. It’s no wonder David T hasn’t been seen there recently.
I think Marko got it right, here: http://greatersurbiton.wordpress.com/2010/07/11/harrys-place-at-the-crossroads-anti-elitism-and-the-white-working-class/
Rosie said,
August 10, 2010 at 8:03 pm
I agree that a lot of the obsessive creeps that comment there should be severely pruned. If you let your comments threads fill with deranged ravings, you put off sane commenters. Some threads turn into a pub where most of the punters are heckling old drunks. No one you’d like to have a conversation with wants to hang out there.
sackcloth and ashes said,
August 10, 2010 at 8:15 pm
Talking of John ‘No PhD’ and his comments on Terry Fitzpatrick, perhaps you all might want to read this:
http://hurryupharry.org/2010/08/05/terry-fitzpatrick/
So HP has dropped its association with Terry Fitzpatrick once he subjected Lee Jasper to racist abuse. How does that compare with the SWP’s continued association with Gilad Atzmon, despite his rabidly anti-Semitic views?
With reference to Rosie’s links, I find it astonishing that our SOAS drop-out makes the
reference to ‘haranguing someone for having fought against the genocide of Muslims in Bosnia’, given the SWP’s endorsement of Slobodan Milosevic as an ‘anti-imperialist’. But as is the case with Atzmon, the hypocrisy of the swuppies knows no bounds.
http://greatersurbiton.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/swp-blogger-richard-lenin-seymour-supported-serbian-territorial-expansion/
Having been a HP visitor for quite a while, I’ve seen more than a few bigots visit the site from both the far right and the far left (although – as was the case with reSSiSStor’s posts – spotting the difference between the two has become increasingly difficult). The number of turds that have popped up – Lee Barnes, ‘Love Supreme’, ‘Exile’, and of course johng and skidmark – is a reflection of their open comments policy, not their views.
maxdunbar said,
August 11, 2010 at 5:17 am
S + A
The difference is that we don’t give scum like Resistor posting rights.
Marko Attila Hoare said,
August 11, 2010 at 8:49 am
Max, does Andrew Coates still have posting rights here ? In 1992, at the height of the massacres in Bosnia, he wrote ‘Three cheers for Living Marxism‘s courageous stand on Serbia. At last some proletarian internationalism has seen its way into print.’ Living Marxism was, of course, the RCP’s Karadzic-supporting, Serb-atrocity-denying ragsheet. Coates also waged a personal letter-writing campaign to smear opponents of Serb ethnic-cleansing as ‘demonising the Serbs’.
http://greatersurbiton.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/shiraz-stalinist/
He belongs in the same category as Atzmon and Fitzpatrick. If he does still have posting rights here, you might want to reconsider.
resistor said,
August 11, 2010 at 10:47 am
Marko is an apologist for the ethnic cleansing of the Krajina region of Croatia. The largest single ethnic cleansing of the Balkan wars.
Indeed he celebrated it.
http://www.henryjacksonsociety.org/stories.asp?id=558
‘…for despite all the crimes against Serb civilians that accompanied Operation Storm, the fact remains that it was an entirely necessary, legitimate military action that should rightly be celebrated. ‘
Did you crack open the champagne Marko?
Marko Attila Hoare said,
August 11, 2010 at 11:20 am
‘The largest single ethnic cleansing of the Balkan wars.’
Just another myth from Milosevic-supporter Resistor. The largest single act of ethnic cleansing of the Balkan wars was the Serb assault on Bosnia in 1992, which resulted in 1.1 million refugees by mid-July 1992, and nearly two million by the end of the year, according to UNHCR figures. An act of ethnic cleansing which Resistor and his kind supported.
Resistor is a liar as well as a fascist; folks are welcome to follow the link he provided to see what I really did say.
maxdunbar said,
August 11, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Marko
Re Andrew Coates, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say and I don’t give out posting rights on this site anyway.
1992 was eighteen years ago. He is not an LM fan now as your post shows. We all had some silly ideas when we were younger.
Kuching Hitam said,
August 11, 2010 at 6:37 pm
We all had some silly ideas when we were younger
Marko has silly ideas now and he can’t claim callow youth as a mitigating factor.
Will said,
August 11, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Max D “We all had some silly ideas when we were younger.”
Nope — not me.
Will said,
August 11, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Stupid abuse.
Will said,
August 11, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Stupid abuse.
Marko Attila Hoare said,
August 12, 2010 at 9:51 am
Sorry, Max, I wasn’t having a go at you; just thought you might want to know. Of course, people can change their views, and it’s entirely right that people should be forgiven and given a second chance, if they genuinely change and show contrition. The problem is that Coates has continued periodically to attack me and my family, for the fact that we opposed the Bosnian genocide, while simultaneously lying about what his own position was at the time. This suggests to me that his supposed change has not been very sincere. He was also not very young at the time, btw – rather older than I am now.
entdinglichung said,
August 12, 2010 at 11:06 am
do I smell obsession?
johng said,
August 12, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Actually Rosie and Sackcloth and Ashes I made no reference to Bosnia in the posts. That was someone else. Your usual accuracy I see.
Rosie said,
August 12, 2010 at 4:38 pm
johng – I thought that “john” was you replying to me, as I say further down the thread. (Comment 54 for anyone so wildly interested as to follow this up). So apologies for attributing that comment to you.
But since you’ve turned up again, perhaps you could now answer my question. This was your comment:-
Could you explain how David T was demonstrating “bigotry” in that clip? As I said, Andy Newman won’t quote the islamophobic bits from what he called an “islamophobic rant” and deletes me when I ask him to. Perhaps you could explain the bigotry?
johng said,
August 12, 2010 at 4:53 pm
He looked entirely mad Rosie. If you can’t see this there is not anything I can do I’m afraid. And I think its the result of sincerely believing that there is a grand orchestrated conspiracy of Islamist groups who want to take over the west. This results in the obsession with Islamists under the bed. Look at the latest post from the quillam foundation they’ve put up. It tries to allege that anyone who doesn’t agree that targetting all Islamists (as opposed to violent ones) is not simply wrong but ‘an ‘Islamist sympathizer’.
Anyone who can’t see the problems associated with a position like that can’t have spent a lot of time thinking about the history of the 20th century. Incidentally Sack Cloth and Ashes HP do not have an open comments policy. They just refused to allow me to make that point about that Quillam post. They however have no problems leaving up abusive and often racist posts. And had no problem giving posting rights to a man with a record of racially abusing posters in violent and threatening ways. They let him post BECAUSE of his attitude towards Galloway and Respect, and they knew about those attitudes mainly because they saw him post them on SUN. And on SUN the individual had regularly been abusive and threatening. I don’t think attempts to argue that they were somehow unaware of that individuals track record ring true at all. And the reason why I think this site should stop simply doing duplicate posts from HP is that over the last week these stories have appeared ONLY because the two sites concerned had called them over giving posting rights to someone who used racist, abusive and threatening language. Effectively your attempting to change the subject just as much as they are. Where is the story about HPs complicity with racism?
charliethechulo said,
August 12, 2010 at 6:12 pm
John Game: what he fuck are you on – or on about?
How is ‘Shiraz’ part of “HP’s complicity with racism”? You have already been asked to substantiate that charge and noticeably failed to do so. Are you muddling us up with the Galloway/Respect-supporting ‘Socialist Unity’ site, who *do* share culpability with HP, having hosted this guy?
Explain yourself, Game! Or shut the fuck up.
johng said,
August 12, 2010 at 9:57 pm
I just have. It seems to be a feature of rabid right wing nutters that they are incapable of reading. Certainly the house style of Shiraz Socialist greatly resembles that of HP (you know, moronic personal abuse, hate campaigns etc, although at laughable low level). One further clarification. The claim made above that I was equating the scandal of child sex abuse in Catholic institutions with the offensive rubbish churned out on HP blog is simply wrong. I was comparing the importance of a racist being given a platform on HP and Andy Newman voicing an opinion about the problem of anti-catholic bigotry and the blindness of ‘new atheists’ to this on his blog. In the little land of blogdom there can be no doubt that for any left winger the former is much more worthy of comment then the latter: whatever views you take on Andy’s position. Why obsessively blog about the latter but not the former? In doing so repeating precisely the same tripe as an HP blog in the same week it gave a platform to a racist.
Will said,
August 13, 2010 at 1:10 am
(string of pointless and abusive comments, deleted under the new ‘carpet bombing’ comments policy)
maxdunbar said,
August 13, 2010 at 5:12 am
You have no idea, just no idea, how ridiculous you sound.
A racist been given posting rights on Harry’s Place is more important than a head of state covering up the torture and rape of children?
Really?
Anyway, you’ve taken this thread off comment, you’ve asked for my opinion and you’ve had it.
Seriously John, get off the internet and take a look at the world.
johng said,
August 13, 2010 at 7:47 am
No. again Max Dunbar if you claim to be some sort of liberal pay attention to what your opponents actually say. I was comparing the relative importance of what happened on two blogs. If you really can’t make the distinction then I would suggest that this might be one reason why you have lost all sense of proportion and contact with reality. Andy Newman thinking we have to be careful about anti-catholic bigotry no more makes him a supporter of the abuse of children by catholic institutions, then worries about state policies towards Muslim’s make one ‘an apologist for Islam’. And having such worries in either case is a lot less blameworthy (and indeed noteworthy) then giving a platform to those who openly racially abuse and threaten people. If you can’t see the distinctions involved you have a serious ethical and political problem.
johng said,
August 13, 2010 at 7:49 am
And its not at all off topic. That’s the problem.
resistor said,
August 13, 2010 at 9:42 am
Marko writes, ‘The largest single act yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip (continues)
skidmarx said,
August 13, 2010 at 10:00 am
Cross-posted from Harry’s Place.
Via Michael Ezra.
Can’t see any connection at all.
maxdunbar said,
August 13, 2010 at 6:26 pm
John
So when have we given a platform to those who openly racially abuse and threaten people?
You are throwing shit at a wall and you know it.
jim denham said,
August 13, 2010 at 7:33 pm
“And having such worries in either case is a lot less blameworthy (and indeed noteworthy) then giving a platform to those who openly racially abuse and threaten people”:
Mr Game, we have asked you repeatedly to defend/justify your allegations/suggestions that ‘Shiraz’ has *ever* given any kind of support or platform to “those who openly racially abuse and threaten people.”
You have failed to do so, over a prolonged period of time. Instead you have continued to propagate your filthy, baseless innuendo and slurs against us. So the time has come when we at ‘Shiraz’ say…
Put up or shut up, Mr Game!
Or else be exposed as a LIAR!
Egg on your face said,
August 14, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Hic!
Harry Tuttle said,
August 14, 2010 at 1:04 am
Jim Denham wrote:
Mr Game, we have asked you repeatedly to defend/justify your allegations/suggestions that ‘Shiraz’ has *ever* given any kind of support or platform to “those who openly racially abuse and threaten people.”
After John’s defense of the SWP over Gilad Atzmon, I’m surprised he would choose this particular line of attack to troll Shiraz Socialist.
I doubt he’ll put up, even his fellow party member skidmarx can only offer links showing the two sites carry the same stories. No doubt, were one to offer evidence proving Harry’s Place and Lenin’s Tomb posted on the same news item at the same time, it would be proof that Richard Seymour is sympathetic to the politics of David T and company.
Even after reading John’s response, I’m still not sure what any of this has to do with the original post.
skidmarx said,
August 14, 2010 at 9:33 am
No doubt, were one to offer evidence proving Harry’s Place and Lenin’s Tomb posted on the same news item at the same time,
Have you got any evidence of cross-posting between HP & LT?
Put up or shut up, Mr Tuttle!
Or else be exposed as a LIAR!
(See what I did there?)
Harry Tuttle said,
August 14, 2010 at 1:17 pm
I think you’re missing the point, if I were to find an article posted on both sites using the same source, it would not necessarily imply they share the same politics. As to your challenge, I’ll do you one better:
Lenin’s Tomb http://leninology.blogspot.com/2010/08/british-values.html
Socialist Unity http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=6479
Shiraz Socialist http://shirazsocialist.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/jimmy-reid/
All three posted the same material. Clearly, there’s a conspiracy going on. Tell me Skidmarx, have you ever witnessed Denham, Newman, or Seymour in the same room at the same time?
(See what I did there?)
Yes, yes I do.
But what does this have to do with the original post?
maxdunbar said,
August 14, 2010 at 11:07 am
‘(See what I did there?)’
Yes, you made a boring and irrelevant comment
skidmarx said,
August 14, 2010 at 12:06 pm
No, I pointed out that propagating filthy, baseless innuendo and slurs is more of a home team problem here.
maxdunbar said,
August 14, 2010 at 12:26 pm
In what way?
skidmarx said,
August 15, 2010 at 12:59 pm
I see my reply to this has been deleted. I would send a missive to the PO Box in Bolton with the silly hat portrait, but you’re not worth it.
johng said,
August 14, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Jim I was referring to Harry’s Place not to Shiraz Socialist. I was stating that it was more newsworthy that Harry’s Place gave a platform to people like that then that Andy Newman thinks we have to be careful about anti-Catholic bigotry. And that it was therefore curious that Shiraz Socialist focused on the latter (as did Harry’s Place) rather then the former. Your deliberate distortion of what I said seems to be your general method of arguing with people (ie simply attempting to smear people in order to avoid argument). A method I believe you have learnt from the right wing trolls at Harry’s Place. I believe this because your arguments and your methods of arguments are quite indistinguishable from the same (and that method is not one I had ever seen before, aside from perhaps shock jocks on talk radio in the US). Which is strange for someone who calls themselves a socialist or a left winger of any kind.
johng said,
August 14, 2010 at 3:37 pm
I see that Max Dunbar continues to confuse blogs and the real world and therefore continues not to understand anything I say. Perhaps Max the best thing you can do is read Under the Dome by Stephen King. Get out while you still can.
maxdunbar said,
August 14, 2010 at 4:43 pm
John
Stephen King is one of my favourite writers, and I read his excellent Under the Dome some months ago.
How are you finding it? Serious question.
maxdunbar said,
August 14, 2010 at 4:45 pm
Just on this ‘anti-Catholic bigotry’ angle:
Can you point to any anti-Catholic bigotry in any of the commentary about the child abuse scandal?
I need your help on this, as I don’t have your ability to detect racism in homeopathic quantities
johng said,
August 14, 2010 at 5:58 pm
I enjoyed it very much. It reminds me of Harry’s Place. Pick your characters. I’m afraid I can’t help on the anti-catholic bigotry as I haven’t been following the story. Andy Newman does think there might be a danger of this though, which true or not, doesn’t seem to me as blog worthy as the guardian of our conscience, Harry’s Place, giving platforms to people who racially abuse people and then refusing to apologize to someone who was racially abused.
johng said,
August 14, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Oh and by the way. No one is a bigger fan of Stephen King then me, so, you know, watch yourself…
Rosie said,
August 14, 2010 at 6:48 pm
He was shouting “You’re a disgrace” to someone who he thinks has horrible politics. I don’t suppose you’d call someone mad shouting “you’re a disgrace” to, say, Benjamin Netanyahu.
As for Stephen King, if some editor cut down his books by two thirds they’d be tolerable. If you are looking for horror stories set in New England I’d go for H P Lovecraft.
jim denham said,
August 14, 2010 at 11:03 pm
“Your deliberate distortion of what I said seems to be your general method of arguing with people (ie simply attempting to smear people in order to avoid argument). A method I believe you have learnt from the right wing trolls at Harry’s Place. I believe this because your arguments and your methods of arguments are quite indistinguishable from the same (and that method is not one I had ever seen before, aside from perhaps shock jocks on talk radio in the US). Which is strange for someone who calls themselves a socialist or a left winger of any kind.”
Game: you’ve got shit where your brains should be. No wonder you’re an SWP’er, thicko and anti-semite.
Will said,
August 14, 2010 at 11:26 pm
can someone here tell me what is the problem with anti-Catholic bigotry?
being anti-catholic should be the first recourse of any socialist werTH the name.
Egg on your face said,
August 15, 2010 at 12:35 am
Nothing wrong with bigotry eh?
charliethechulo said,
August 15, 2010 at 12:47 am
Not when its against racists, anti-semites, child abusers and a Church that is responsible for mass murder in Africa: No! Nothing wrong with “bigotry” against that sort of scum.
Egg on your face said,
August 15, 2010 at 10:24 am
So the Catholic church, as opposed to particular elements in it, are ‘scum’?
That indeed is bigotry.
Hostility to various abuses, racism etc. is not bigotry. Chulo’s inverted commas do not mean much – the original did not have them. He and Biffa Bacon are self-confessed bigots
Rosie said,
August 15, 2010 at 8:35 am
I don’t know whether johng’s indignation is real or assumed – it’s always a hard thing to tell – but he’s got his knickers in a twist because we didn’t write a post denouncing HP for allowing Terry Fitz write a few guest posts. And writing about the impending visit of the Pope and the controversies around the Catholic church, which is a big topic at the moment, is simply a deflecting manoeuvre to hide our apparent complicity in Fitz’s racism. That is a brilliant conspiracy theory, like a Troofer regarding any evidence that shows the 9/11 attacks being carried out by islamist nutters MUST have been planted.by the FBI.
My own little conspiracy theory is that johng is over here going on about this because Andy Newman’s constant championing of a famously reactionary organisation is simply indefensible, so when anyone attacks Newman’s stance he jumps up and down in an all-singing, juggling and break-dancing display of whataboutery which would make quite a good street performance at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.
johng said,
August 15, 2010 at 12:06 pm
I wasn’t actually aware that Newman championed the Roman Catholic Church. Anymore then I am aware that there is anybody on the left who is concerned to champion Islam. But I can assure you that the indignation is entirely real. There are some people who find it very hard to imagine that anyone could genuinely disagree with them. This is one of the characteristics of this site, another thing it shares with Harry’s Place. Everyone who disagrees with them must also be a crypto-fascist or Stalinist.
johng said,
August 15, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Ah and Jim Denham has just decided to call me an anti-semite again. Before going on to write yet another post on how nobody ever does that. I don’t actually think that taking legal action against Shiraz Socialist would be worth the effort though. But any distinction between this site and Harry’s Place is probably too small to be worth noticing.
johng said,
August 15, 2010 at 12:09 pm
I like my horror stories long. I don’t like all this neo-liberal ‘cutting down’, It reminds me of the joyless prison corridors capitalism makes of our streets.
maxdunbar said,
August 15, 2010 at 2:57 pm
Rosie
I particularly like this point from Newman:
Do I discern the crafty hand of our old pal Nathan Rothschild?
jim denham said,
August 16, 2010 at 2:39 am
Gameboy: ” I don’t actually think that taking legal action against Shiraz Socialist would be worth the effort though”… so it *might* be worth the effort under some circs, eh, Game?
Is that supposed to frighten us?
Recourse to the bourgeois courts is, of course, the standard MO of your hero Galloway, isn’t it? You do have an awful lot in common with him (despite his having fucked over your organisation, the SWP), don’t you?
Comments Policy Proposal « Shiraz Socialist said,
August 22, 2010 at 9:32 am
[...] diversion and your non-coverage is a sinister ploy . (For an example of this kind of Cuntishness see here from comment 10 on.) If you quote from writer X, you therefore agree with writer X’s every utterance. If you [...]