Iraq Five Years On (majority report)

March 23, 2008 at 10:53 pm (Human rights, insanity, iraq, iraq war, voltairespriest, war)

Most people agree it was – and remains – a disaster.

How do we make it stop?

12 Comments

  1. Incorrigible Sceptic said,

    “Most people”? Unless you’re claiming to have telepathic communication with everyone who has an opinion on the subject, I suspect that what you really mean is “most people I know”. You should try getting out more, and reading a wider range of blogs and newspapers.
    Funnily enough, when the chance to vote on the issue came in 2005, most people who voted at all voted for parties that supported the war – if opposition was so widespread and so deeply felt as you want to believe, how the hell was *that* possible? (Of course you could explain it by saying that most voters are gullible sheep, but you don’t despise most of humanity, as so many of the far left sects do, so that excuse isn’t available to you.) And what has happened since 2005 to make anti-war groups, or right-on media, or loudmouthed academics, or far left sects, any closer to the lives and minds of most ordinary people than they were before – which was never very close? Nothing that I can see.
    Face it: those who have a strong opinion either way about Iraq are a minority, and those who oppose its liberation are a still smaller minority, though – fortunately – those who actively support Islamofascism are a smaller minority still. Sorry, but you lost – Saddam is dead, Iraq is free, and the anti-war movement is fading away into a sick joke.
    Get used to it: the left has shot itself in the foot so many times that defeat is the one thing all the sects have in common. Which is a pity, but if you broaden your horizons a bit you’ll realise it’s the truth.

  2. voltaires_priest said,

    The UK population didn’t vote exclusively on the war in 2005. They had other minor concerns like, err, the NHS, schools, immigration, the economy, devolution, anti-fascism, the environment, etc etc.

    Also, nearly half of them didn’t vote at all.

    Either way, you’d have to be extraordinarily imperceptive to think that the UK populace support the war on Iraq. Or one of a tiny minority of neo-con lunatics. Or very, very stupid.

  3. Incorrigible Sceptic said,

    Thanks for calling me imperceptive, neocon, lunatic and/or very, very stupid just because I dare to doubt your profound wisdom.
    I didn’t, by the way, say that “the UK populace supports the war”, I said that I doubt that a majority opposes it, but I can see that that was way too subtle for you. My bad, as I say.
    As for *your* bad, let’s see now:
    – childish insults flung at a complete stranger the way a monkey flings shit? check
    – total incapacity to actually read the comment being replied to, coupled with eagerness to reply to what you imagine was being said? check
    – total lack of any self-doubt or self-questioning? check
    – total confidence in mystical powers of insight into the thoughts of millions of people? check
    – spending hours on the internet interacting with – oh look, here’s a weird contradiction – a very, very, very tiny percentage of those millions? check
    – completely ineffectual when it comes to actually affecting politics, rather than just striking poses about it from the sidelines? check
    Not that you’re the only lefty blogger who behaves like this, or even anywhere near being the worst, but it’s still sad to see how the left goes on and about the importance of debate, yet never actually engages in debate. When did the left become so bloody dogmatic and closed-minded?
    (Note I refer only to the contemporary left, not to the real left that’s dead and gone – poor old Karl is still spinning away up in Highgate.)
    Shorter version: Fuck you too. You’re not worth any more of my time, and I have grown-ups to talk to.

  4. voltairespriest said,

    Well I was going to suggest that of the above you were merely somewhat imperceptive, but after that rant I think your underlying rage becomes very clear.

    I’m sorry.

    I’m sorry that the war which you so clearly support is a disaster.

    I’m sorry that you get so easily angered when you’re faced with the obvious truth of the devastation inflicted upon Iraq.

    I’m sorry that the war only supported by a diminishing band of right-wing loons and a tiny number of politically deluded left wingers.

    I’m sorry that “Free” Iraq is being run by theocrats sponsored into power by the occupying powers.

    I’m sorry that you feel the need to argue about the obvious with a saddo left-wing blogger like myself.

    Now go make yourself a cup of tea and realise that politics, like war, is a contact sport. People may say mean things to you.

  5. S Hussein said,

    Yes, it would have been much better had I been left in charge and Iraq remained a concentration camp above ground and a mass grave below it.

    I’m sure most Kurds, Marsh Arabs, Shias, my political opponents, trade unionists, anyone who has looked at me funny etc. wish I had never been overthrown.
    Not to mention all those who value freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of movement, universal suffrage etc.

    Only a ‘neo-con’ would think anything positive has come from it.

  6. voltaires_priest said,

    Fucking hell, and here was I thinking there’s no afterlife!

    Saddam – wanna become a blogger? I hear they’ve got vacancies at Socialist Unity…

  7. johng said,

    Voltaire. You need to get back to alternative Iraq with Jim. Saddam is alive and well in that place:

    http://decentpedia.blogspot.com/2008/03/alternative-iraq.html

  8. Incorrigible Sceptic said,

    I wasn’t going to bother any more with this little wankfest of yours, which has a lot more to do with proving your credentials to your dwindling band of comrades than with anyone or anything in Iraq. But the line “your underlying rage becomes very clear” made me laugh, and I just had to thank you for providing still more entertainment on a boring holiday weekend.
    To add to the list:
    – reducing arguments you can’t handle to psychological symptoms so that they can be more easily dismissed? check
    – totally failing to answer any of the points actually put to you? check
    – retreating into robotic repetition of the same old guff we’ve been hearing for five years? check
    – above all, reducing the Iraqis you claim to care so much about to nothing but passive victims of the villains in your religiose black-and-white fantasies of Good vs Evil, where everything is binary and nothing is complicated? check

    Never mind. John Game agrees with you, and with an intellect that vast on your side, you have no need to worry that maybe the left is sinking into terminal stupidity and irrationality. Keep on tub-thumping!

  9. voltaires_priest said,

    And again, I’m sorry.

    I’m sorry you’re still wrong about the core issue, just as you were on day one, and just as you’ve been for five years.

    I’m sorry that you still seem to be in denial about that, in spite of the fact that the world passed you by on the issue years ago.

    I’m sorry that fact makes you angry.

    I’m sorry it obviously eats you up so much that try as you might to loftily walk away from this “wankfest”, you just can’t seem to do it and so keep returning.

    I’m sorry that you lack the perception to make out the rather obvious (and oft-reiterated) fact that JohnG most certainly does not agree with me, about anything much at all.

    But more than I’m sorry for what the war’s done to you, I’m sorry for what it’s done to the families of the dead, sacrificed on the altar of political ambition.

  10. voltairespriest said,

    PS – I do quite like John’s “Alternative Iraq” link there though. You should have a look, it’s very droll.

  11. Incorrigible Sceptic said,

    “angry”? “eats you up”? “what the war’s done to you”? Again with the psychobabble. You really are living in a dream world, aren’t you? You poor fool, you don’t matter enough to get angry at, you’re just a good source for a laugh or two.
    As for the final banal rhetorical flourish – “I’m sorry for what it’s done to the families of the dead, sacrificed on the altar of political ambition” – No, you’re not. It gives you something to wank about, after all.
    And that, my laughably pompous and tellingly evasive chum, is my last word.

  12. voltaires_priest said,

    Oh dear, and yet so consumed are you by all this that even after so many bites of the cherry, you still can’t stay away?

    As to “evasion”, I think the general readership will agree that mockery is probably the right answer to your incoherent ranting, as the evidence on this very thread shows.

    You see, lofty pronunciations that you intend to walk away or refuse to embroil yourself only work if you follow through on them the first time out. After three attempts on the same thread they begin to look kinda weak. As you do right now. ;)

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